Jesusberg

It's like Babcock came to LGW and said, "You know what, I'm going to give you people what you want". Thank-you Mike.

I pretty much agree with all your points here. Bertuzzi's no-look passes are also problematic. I sincerely hope that Big E can put together a solid season, but who knows. Salei, in my opinion as well, is an upgrade from Lilja at least offensively. Two seasons ago the guy was playing top 4 minutes for Colorado, so I think Babcock will expect 20ish minutes out of the bottom pairing to help take the weight off Lids-Rafi. The bolded part of the Kindl synopsis is what I'm hoping for as a Red Wings fan. I've watched enough of Kindl to know that he does possess a lot of raw skill, and that some of his errant passing isn't all his fault. Maybe a partner who can accept his passes and his quick reactions will help him at the NHL level. He's got a lot of mobility on the blue-line, so giving him a little bit of powerplay time here and there might boost his confidence too.

My best guess is at forward Bertuzzi, and on defense a tie between Ericsson/Kindl.

He's got 99 problems, but the Cup ain't one.

In terms of some older(ish) players that I wouldn't mind the Red Wings taking a crack at: Chara (33), Markov (31) and Kaberle (32) The pipe-dream RFA's would be: Weber (25), Doughty (20) or to a lesser extent Bogosian (20) Of course, all of these options assume that Lids retires. I would love Chara, as I think he'd be the most complete all-around defensemen. That also means he'll command a high price, and Boston will be very reluctant to let him go. I could really see the Wings signing Kaberle in the off-season. Not that I really want them to, but it just seems like a likely move to me should Lids retire. Getting the RFA's would be pretty difficult, I think, especially Doughty. With Nashville's self-imposed cap, perhaps Weber would be the best shot out of the RFA's. I threw Bogosian on there because he was at one time a decent offensive threat. He plays a solid, underrated physical game, and I think the offense would seep through should he be on a strong Detroit team. Honestly, any of these guys would appease me if Lidstrom decides to hang 'em up.

I'd definitely add Bryan Little to that list, as I think he just had a rough year (51 points in 2008-09). Also, Peverley should get the nod too, as he notched 55 points on a much weaker team. That being said, no one else would be considered "better" than Byfuglien after that. The next guys in line would be Freddy Modin and Nigel Dawes, neither of which have been overly impressive lately. As someone else has said, their defense looks to be pretty set. The only thing I can see is that maybe they're looking for a better shut-down guy. After Bogosian and Hainsey (blocked shots only), the hitting and blocked shot numbers go down. They could be hoping that Byfuglien could work on the PK, perhaps. Just a guess.

Haha, the exact same thing came to my mind. Thanks Shanny, you crazy Irish bastard. Do us all a favor and go to Notre Dame to mentor a young man named Riley Sheahan. The similarities between you two are uncanny, and we could really use another badass scoring machine.

Hey guys, Just looking to get some feedback on the top 20 Red Wings prospects. I'm posting this to create some healthy, open discussion about the topic. I'd appreciate it if no one bashed me too much, as I didn't post it to be called a "retard". I do appreciate criticism, though, as I'm about a year into writing for them and I think (hope) I'm getting a bit better with how I rank prospects. Anyway, thanks for any input to anyone who posts

I don't mind it at all. I'm glad someone decided to change things up. Props to Howie. Maybe he's trying to reverse the sophomore slump by slapping superstition in the face.

I agree with the McCollum (#8) and Larsson (#9) closeness. I also agree with Lashoff and Nicastro being close, and both are just outside the Top 20... somewhere from 21-23. Ritola (#17) and Andersson (#20) are also close, and I would give the edge physically to Andersson here. I hope he can add a little offense to his game and become the third line center in the future. While I do agree that Tatar is on the fast track, I also feel as if he slowed down at the end of last season quite a bit. After his play at the World Juniors, he really stopped putting up the points. Don't get me wrong though, if he bursts out of the gates next season I won't hesitate to make him an 8.0+. It all depends on how well Smith plays as well, as I think those two will battle it out for #1. As far as Mursak is concerned, I may have a bit of a soft spot for the guy. I kept him ranked fairly high during and after his dismal rookie season, something I caught a lot of flack for. He's got speed that's comparable to Helm's with the hands to match it. He's also a very strong puck handler, zipping through the defense with ease at times. I believe he'll be a 30+ goal scorer next season. McCollum was a toughie for me. He's got that blue chip potential, but he just couldn't seem to put it together last season. He didn't play well at all for Team USA, in Grands Rapids or even for Toledo when he was sent down to the ECHL. That being said, I think he'll bounce back this year, and he has the safety of a veteran goalie partner with Joey MacDonald there. Pulkkinen was kind of tough for me as well. I had him at a 7.5D initially if I remember right, but a 7.0C is pretty similar when it comes down to it. If/when he shows he can play in the higher leagues, and not just the Jr. FNL, he could see his stock rise on the list. The same situation applies to Almqvist too. Once he proves he can play steady in the regular season with HV 71 he'll move up. He's already received a pretty big jump from #20 to #14, and I expect big things out of him. Ritola could be a 6.5B, I guess that remains to be seen. Like I said in a previous post, though, Axelsson is still on their because of his raw skill. I think Nyquist is where he should be. He had such a strong season for Maine... doubling his point totals, being a top 3 finalist for the Hobey Baker and still maintaining his excellent two-way play. I'm very high on Nyquist at this point. Agreed with Abdelkader, as he could very well be a 7.0B. Some of the other writers on HF told me about a certain scout raving about Abdelkader, discussing his potential to be a power forward in the future. When it comes down to it though, he'll be off the next list anyway as he only has to play 11 games to "graduate". Once Smith shows he can play well in the AHL, he'll likely get that C letter grade. Thank-you for complimenting the list and giving some feedback. I really appreciate it. EDIT: As a side note, can anyone tell me how long it takes for the "Booster" logo to show up under my name. I contributed some money the other day and I'm just wondering when it should appear.

I'm not 100% on what I'm allowed, or not allowed to do on here, but if I wanted to post my own rankings I probably just would. It wouldn't be a slight against them at all, and actually my rankings would be similar to what I have now, save a few tweaks. The whole thing is I've posted on these boards quite a bit lately, and so I figured it'd be nice to get some feedback. There's always healthy debate about... everything on the boards. Prospect ranking isn't the easiest thing in the world, as it can be pretty subjective at times.

My best guess is that they'll at least let him ride it out for three years. Generally, guys in college play for three seasons, and then if they feel their development is far enough along they'll allow them to jump into the AHL or even NHL. It could also depend on what Sheahan wants for himself in terms of an education. He could want to finalize his degree in the four years. Abdelkader spent three years at MSU if I remember correctly, and then decided to take summer classes after he left to finish his degree, so anything is possible. I definitely agree that ND could hinder his offensive growth though. They're such a defensive school that it might be hard for him to branch out. They even had him play defense last season when the injury bug hit them hard.

He's certainly capable of it. He's not the biggest or meanest hitter on the ice, but he can throw his weight around if the need occurs. He's only 18 now and weighs 202 pounds, a lot of it being muscle. Say he gets up to 215-220 and retains his skill level... that's one scary dude. Sheahan has gotten favorable comparisons to Rick Nash, who still hits a respectable amount. So I guess right now he's more of a protect the puck with his size guy... a "new age" power forward if you will. He's more Rick Nash than he is Dustin Brown. I was really down on this pick when Detroit first made it. I'm a little embarrassed about how I was harping on the guy, when in reality he could turn out to be a complete beast for the team. I have really high hopes for this him.

Here's hoping he's just a year or two away from defensive coach... *crosses fingers*

There's a process where we submit our proposed Top 20 for the entire writing team to view. They then comment on any changes that they think might need to be made, but really it's up to the team's writer to decide. I personally feel that Detroit is somewhere in the middle of the pack right now, but if guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinen and Jarnkrok have solid seasons, they could break through into the top 10 for sure.

HF's general policy on prospects moving on is that a player must... a) Play 65+ games in the NHL (playoffs not included) b) Be 24 or older without reaching that games played milestone. If they meet these, they're off the list. Abdelkader just missed the cut off point (54 games), so he won't be in the next one for sure. I understand the gripe here with Larsson, but he still has the talent, so his number grade stays, while the letter grade drops. I dropped him quite a bit since the last list, primarily because of his move to Sweden. I'm a very conservative ranker, I guess. I think a lot of the time prospects get shuffled around way too much. Another writer overrating his prospects doesn't really influence me, to be honest. According to HF's ranking system a 7.0-7.5 is a 2nd line player, or 3-4 defenseman. I think right now guys like Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Tatar, etc have a bit more to prove before I call them first line potential. The closest guy to getting bumped up is Tatar. If he plays well again this season I won't hesitate to bump him to an 8.0+ (first liner). Same as the Larsson deal. Axelsson still has skill, more than quite a few of the players on that list. His issue is that he has a poor attitude and he doesn't wanna play in North America. HF ranks players on their raw skill above all else. When I first started I factored in NHL readiness quite a bit, but that's not the way they like things done. I had Pulkkinen at an 8.0D at one point, and then I changed it. To me, he has to prove he can play in the FNL. He tore it up in their Jr. league, and at the U20's, but to me he's gotta show he can hang at the higher level. I do agree he's got lots of skills and raw potential. Thanks for all the criticism guys.

I've got no issues with any of them. I think Kindl will look good with the #4.

I hope he can end up handling it, I really do. Salei is capable of playing 20 mins a night, or at least he was in 2008-09. Hopefully Ericsson and Kindl can hang too.

It's kind of hard for someone "tough" to do something in that case. It's a first line with guys like Datsyuk, Z and Lidstrom. Other teams whose star players are Getzalf and Richards are going to be a bit tougher up front. We'd have to get a line match-up where the third pairing on defense or the fourth line of forwards (Abdelkader in particular) would get out there. Speaking of which, I fully expect Abs to get in a few scraps this season, especially after talking about how he went for boxing lessons. I doubt he'll be a full blown fighter, but I think he'll def drop the gloves a few times. I agree to an extent, but I guess this is really about hindsight and self-motivation. If he realizes he had one poor year and wants to improve then I'm all for it. The season before when he got some games in I thought he looked pretty good. I know he had better partners, but he still looked calmer overall. I don't think E's a bad player, I just think he had zero confidence and got stuck with Lebda as a partner for a good portion of the season. It seemed to me like when Lilja got back, E had more freedom to play his game. I'm hoping Salei can be the stay-at-home guy to give him that confidence too.

Well if NHL 10 is any indication (and we all know it is) Big Rig has risen to the occasion. In the third year of my dynasty (2011-2012) he is an 84 overall, and hits people into next week. It shall happen. So sayeth the Xbox 360. But on a serious note, the guy has all the right tools to develop into a top 4 guy. He's got size, mobility and a nasty shot from the blue line. If he gets some confidence under his belt, I think we'll really see him grab the bull by the horns. I think that perhaps Babs and co wanted him to really work on his defensive game last season, and so he was over-thinking the game quite a bit. I think it was 2007-08 where he was the leading scorer in Grand Rapids at a certain point in the season, so he does have competent offensive skills too. I guess it's easier said than done to bring out the best in a player.

Come onnnnn hockey season. It really can't come fast enough. This season is going to rock

Aren't they over the cap by like 3 million? They have a full roster right now, so they'll have to shed someone anyway. If they could somehow pawn off Ryder on someone it'd be a step in the right direction.

I almost think they have to move Bieksa. They're 3.658 million over the cap, including Salo's cap hit. When he returns, his salary goes back on the books. Maybe they hang onto him and try to move Bieksa when Salo returns? Something has to give, either way.

I think they might actually shuffle them... something like: Edler-Hamhuis Ehrhoff-Ballard If Edler can play physical, that top pairing would be a nightmare.

I have a friend who is a huge Canucks fan, so I hear about them more than I'd like to. Bieksa is likely on the move, as they currently have 9 defensemen. Also, Salo's 3.5 is going to be off the books with him on LTIR. I think Alberts will be on the outs with the team with his poor play last year. So it should look something like... Ehrhoff-Edler Hamhuis-Ballard O'Brien-Alberts(Salo) Rome I think they may try to sign Mitchell for cheap, so they can bump Alberts out of the picture. That third pairing would be pretty ugly IMO. If not, I could see Evan Oberg getting some time with the big club.