StevieY'sguy

Steve Yzerman, Igor Larionov, Slava Fetisov, Brendan Shanahan, Luc Robitaille, Brett Hull, Chris Chelios, Igor Larionov, Sergei Fedorov, Dominic Hasek, Chris Osgood, Mike Vernon, Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk...I'd say Nick Lidstrom played with some pretty excellent players and on some pretty excellent teams as well.

That's a fair assesment of the information in my opinion... by no means would i stake a case for or against one player based on a single (albeit interesting) fact such as this, and I'm certainly not saying that he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as great players such as that--yet; but I do feel that given the very remarkable start to his career that he does deserve alot of recognition, and so does Ovechkin..but the major underlying difference between the two that people just do not seem to understand is that when there are two players that are clearly the the best players in the league and one is born in North America while the other is born in Russia the North American player will get the edge in press coverage 10 times out of 10....no one says it's right or fair but that is the way it is plain and simple when you are trying to sell a league to North Americans. The fact that Crosby is exceedingly docile and politically correct is a cherry on top for the execs of the NHL who will never have to be worried about dealing with a PR disaster (a la Kobe Bryant's rape case with the NBA). I'm not defending the quantity of how much Crosby is shown (although as I said most of it I believe is warranted) but simply the stance that he is the posterboy in general.

egroen, you are correct, good call, Richard never led the league in scoring (although he did finish 2nd by a single point twice if that counts for anything lol) as far as the other players who you think may be in the club, PM me a list and ill be more than happy to double check my research but I do know off the top of my head that Ted Lindsay never won the Hart and thus didn't make the list....

I'm gonna keep this short and sweet because with a post that is as ignorant as that one it is clear that you don't have a clue what you are talking about and therefore I won't take the time to waste a long post pointing out just how wrong you are (although I would enjoy it).... 1. Lidstrom's 4 best plus/minus ratings (In a watered down NHL compared to what Orr played in) +43, +40,+40,+40 Bobby Orr's 4 best plus/minus ratings: +124, +86, +84, +80 2. According to some guy named Gordie Howe (although you probably think he's overrated too right??), Bobby Orr could have never scored a goal in the NHL and still would have been one of the top 5 players of all time...not bad for a guy who was just a "juiced up Mike Green"

You misunderstood my post, I wasn't comparing Lidstrom to Crosby nor was I saying that Crosby should be in the conversation for the greatest player of all time...what I was saying is that alot (not all, but alot) of the attention Crosby recieves is warranted due to the fact that he has accomplished more in hockey before the age of 22 than anyone not named Wayne Gretzky, so he is not as overrated as many would like to think....As far as Lidstrom goes I was saying that he is in getting to be overrated both in terms of his current ability and his place in history, (not overwhelmingly mind you, but overrated nonetheless) but Wings fans never want to point that out, and that if the NHL's media darling was a Lidstrom or a Datsyuk then I have a hard time seeing so many Detroit fans having such a problem with one player getting "rammed down their throats"

I wonder how many of you hockey "purists" out there would hold the same "objective" view of how the oversaturation of one player is so bad for hockey or not the correct way to sell the NHL if the object of the media's obsession was Datsyuk or Zetterberg instead of Crosby...I have heard Nick Lidstrom 's name mentioned as the 2nd best defenseman of all-time more than once (Including the Sporting News hockey preview from this past fall that had the audacity to ask 4 current NHL defenseman who was the greatest D man of all-time, Orr or Lidstrom) which is utterly ridiculous (he is deserving of top 5 status sure, but certainly not the #2 slot) and yet i don't ever recall a Wings fan suggesting he may be overrated...funny how that works....6 people in the history of the sport have ever won an MVP, led the league in scoring, and captained a team to a Stanley Cup, here are their names and ages at which they entered the club: Sidney Crosby: 21 Wayne Gretzky: 23 Mario Lemieux: 26 Toe Blake: 32 Jean Beliveau: 34 Maurice Richard: 36 The accomplishment itself is staggering, let alone the fact that the guy did it at a younger age than the other 5 players ( who according to the Hockey News are the #1, #4,#5, #7 and #66 greatest NHL players of all time) who accomplished the feat. The fact of the matter is that he's 22 years old and could retire tommorow with a resume that would get him into the Hall of Fame...as far as I'm concerned he is press is warranted.

From a goaltending and (probably) a defensive standpoint we could matchup with the Swedes but I think Team Mitten would be a bit light on offense to beat the guys in yellow...Team Minnesota likewise probably has the firepower to matchup but not the goaltending...mix Team Michigan with Team Minnesota and you could produce a team capable of beating the Swedes.

Not bad pairings but Kessel MUST have top 6 minutes IMO.

Yea, I always looked forward to watching the pros play on the bigger surface as well, I'm sorry to see it not being used this time.

Yea I'm done back and forthing with that clown

For starters they dont talk about anybody but the best players in the league, and Ovechkin is the only Cap who fits in that category...also PTI has only been on for about a decade and before Ovie, Washington didn't have that many big name players aside from an aging Jagr for a few years....No one is taking me seriously?? Just out of curiosity how many other posters have you had a convo with about me and what I am saying?? This isn't high school, there aren't cliques, and most of the posters on here are on this site to talk hockey and i guarantee many of them are pissed off because they have to read this little feud between you and I..as far as the name calling goes, I think ive insulted you in 2 or 3 posts and i guarantee you have used twice the amount of derogatory comments and profanity that I have so continue telling yourself that you are right if that's what you need to sleep at night, I'm gonna go back to talking hockey because quite frankly I am quite tired of arguing with someone who is as immature and has an obvious ego problem such as yourself.

That would make a ton of sense if I was getting on him for calling names but sense he didn't call anybody a name and i didn't get after him for name calling, it doesn't...better luck next year buddy

Yea, really....why don't you show me a reputable hockey source that labels him as a goal scorer moreso than a playmaker instead of putting up a picture of a bird?

No other Caps players get mentioned because he's the best player on his team you moron, i wasn't talking about other Capitals players getting mentioned....I'm sure Crosby gets mentioned more than Kunitz does when non-hockey people talk about the Penguins too, that doesn't mean he's transcendent.... Your right Alex Ovechkin is the only athlete that other non-hockey athlete's have ever mentioned in public ....Crosby hasn't signed with a marketing firm because he obviously is doing a fine job of marketing himself on his own, judging by how often he is in TV ads....Also the NHL does not cast Crosby in Reebok Ads, the people from Reebok do...The NHL does not cast Crosby in Tim Horton's ads, the people from Tim Horton's do, same thing with Pepsi and Sher-wood..isn't free enterprise great??

Crosby has never been hyped as a goal scorer on Ovechkin's level...anyone who thinks that obviously doesn't pay enough attention to hockey, he's known as a playmaker first and foremost just like Thornton.....BTW, you can have hype and not be a goal scorer...to further your NBA example, Magic Johnson is one of the most famous NBA players ever and he was never a top tier scorer either

Say what you mean.."nobody else gets mentioned" means you think nobody else gets mentioned at all...Also idk what you're obsession is with this entertainment company, congratulations Ovie got signed by a big promotion company, cool...maybe he'll show up in half as many ads as Crosby does...Not that any of this is pertinent because we're not going to agree, but the bottom line whether you like it or not is that Crosby will almost certainly always be marketed as the face of the NHL over Ovechkin due to everything he touches turning to gold (speaking of gold, to all those Crosby haters out there, i suggest not watching Olympics hockey because Canada is gonna coast to victory) and the fact that he is from North America....I'm sorry that this upsets you but you're no longer making valid arguments you're just talking about how my points are wrong and how right you are and I'm not going to continue fighting with a babbling idiot by yourself about this topic.

Haha i thought I might be hearing from you...yes we have very similar stances on this issue and as you know, i don't think that shooting percentage is the sole indicator of goal scoring ability but some folks on here let their hatred of Crosby lead them to say such stupid things that I had to go out of the way to show them that Crosby in spite of the fact that he plays for the Penguins and is on TV too much, is actually a pretty good player.

First of all, (not that I'm saying Crosby is the next Gretzky, he isn't) "The Great One"'s greatest talent was as a playmaker, not a goal scorer, just like Crosby's is...so I'd be interested to hear where you got the notion that he was known as a goal scorer? He's a playmaker who can score, not the other way around...although he isn't too shabby when he does decide to shoot the puck: Crosby as of this moment has taken 1,165 shots on goal during his nearly 5 seasons in the NHL, with 174 goals as a result Alex Ovechkin, supposedly the best "natural goal scorer in the league" took 1,263 shots in his first 3 seasons, which is 98 more than Crosby has in almost 5, and had 163 goals. So when Crosby decides to shoot he is actually much more efficient than Ovechkin...If Crosby had taken as many shots in his career as Ovechkin and converted those shots with the same efficency as his career shot percentage (14.9%) than he would have more goals than Ovie does. Many will say that naturally the more you shoot, your shooting percentage will fall but there isn't any statistical evidence to support that assumption with Crosby, as this season he is well on pace to surpass his career high for shots on goal and is shooting 3.7% higher, at 18.6% than his career shot%... not to mention that his 3 highest shooting percentages came in the same seasons he posted his 3 highest SOG totals, so if anything, the more he shoots the more accurate he is (practice makes perfect i guess). Ovechkin: ------------ Crosby's projected figures using OV's shot total and Crosby's career shot percentage: 05-06: 52 ----------- 05-06: 63 06-07: 46 ---------- 06-07: 58 07-08: 65 ---------- 07-08: 43* 08-09: 56 ---------- 08-09: 79 09-10: 42 --------- 09-10: 42 ** total: 261 ------- total:285 *- I adjusted Crosby's goal total, awarding him only 64% of his projected goal total, as he only played 64 % of the season **- To avoid comprimising the integrity of the results I continued to apply Crosby's career shot % average to Ovechkin's SOG total for this season as well, even though currently Crosby is shooting at a much higher clip, and ironically he ended up with the same number of goals he currently has, as Ovechkin's shooting percentage this season is almost identical to Crosby's career clip. So even though Crosby playing almost 30 less games than Ovie he still ends up with 24 more goals than Ovechkin in the projection....maybe he's not such a bad "natural goal scorer" either....

You're seriously suggesting that Ovechkin is the only current hockey player that has gotten mentioned on a non-hockey sports program??? You've have had a lot of stupid remarks on this site but that assertion may top the list

Team Minnesota Parise-Backes-Wheeler Okposo-Mueller-Byfuglien Langenbrunner-Cullen-Parrish T. Peterson-J.Blake-R. Carter E. Johnson-P. Martin Goligoski-Leopold Ballard- T. Gilbert G: John Curry ( Pittsburgh's "3rd" string goalie..has only played 4 NHL games but was a Hobey Baker finalist at Boston University and has put up great number in the AHL the past 2 years)

Does that make it more classy?

Chelios didn't shake hands with any of the Ducks players in '07 while Crosby at least shook with about half of the Wings....just saying

Ok buddy, i guess i hold the word "transcend" to a higher standard, but apparently all you think you have to do to transcend is to have somebody mention your name on a program that doesn't cover your sport...in that case there are thousands of athletes that transcend every decade, yea you're right Ovechkin transcends

Oh ya, I wish we could have picked up Bouwmeester last year but i think Doughty will probably end up being better than Bouwmeester is...Doughty in the D would be awesome