StevieY'sguy

Listen, I'm not saying what the league is doing is right, I'm just saying that this is how they do it, to try and bring in non-traditional hockey fans....... I also never said it was working, but regardless of if it is or isn't i doubt we'll see the NHL change the ways of their marketing campaigns anytime soon. Also, your point about Wings fans holding on to jerseys longer than "most fans out there" is baseless and not logical at all....How many people do you really think throw away their jerseys once the player is traded (as in the case of your Probert sightings), or retired? I have three Denver Bronco jerseys of John Elway, Brian Griese and Ed McCaffery and a Tennesee Titans jersey of Eddie George. Elway and McCaffery are retired and Griese hasn't been a Bronco for over 5 years, George is retired and I never even liked Eddie George or the Titans (Christmas gift from an uninformed aunt)..... However, whenever I go to a Lions game or am watching the NFL i pull those out......nobody gets rid of a quality jersey if there is nothing wrong with it (stains,etc.) especially with how expensive they are these days

I said from a marketing standpoint how many posters, advertisements, commercials promoting the NHL do you see that have a red wing as more of a focal point than Crosby or Ovie? none. The NHL is not trying to market to hockey fans, they are trying to market to the general public to increase ratings. Watching the most complete player in the NHL in Datsyuk in very enticing to people that actually know hockey, but the average sports fan is going to be drawn to a game involving Crosby or Ovechkin over Datsyuk 10 out of 10 times. I have 2 comments about your "jerseys all over the country" point. 1st of all, the wings may have been by far the most popular in the past, but the 87 of Pittsburgh and the 8 of Washington have been the 2 most popular selling jerseys the past two seasons, also based on the most recent figures i could find which were early this season, the Wings had only the 4th highest selling jersey, so if the Wings do still have the most popular jersey around the country (behind both Pitt and Washington), it does not appear likely to stay that way for long. Also, if people from other regions of the country are buying Red Wings jerseys, I'm very confident that most of those people are people that know hockey, and are already watching the NHL playoffs as it is, so from the NHL's point of view, why would you market to them? It'd be like inviting somebody to a party at your house when they are already sitting on your couch .....

Thoughts on the series? I think it'll come down to which goalie plays better, both teams have explosive players and whichever goalie can stand up to the offensive heat better should win the series, can't wait to watch!

I don't know if we really are only getting 4 of 7 games on national TV, but if we are no one should be surprised......The Red Wings are not the most popular hockey team in the United States from a marketing standpoint, we don't have Ovie or Crosby, and we are full of "boring" players, we have the most successful team in the league but we don't have any flashy players that will draw outside viewers, Lidstrom, Osgood, Z,Pav, etc. are not flashy personalities (part of the reason they are so successfull), no one should be surprised by this

Agreed, Kiprusoff has it even worse in Calgary, the guy played 76 regular season games and in the 6 games where he did get a rest, they did not get a single win. Had Calgary ended up making it to the Finals, Kippy would have played almost 100 games, I don't know what these GMs are thinking playing these guys so much

Thornton and Getzlaf are actually very close to the same category, and Thornton has a Hart trophy. Thornton obviously chokes in the playoffs but on a strict skill/talent comparison I'd say they are very close

I don't really see a dominant leader type in the locker room that has led a team to a Cup before, Blake and Boyle are nice but they were by no means leading their respective teams charge when they got their ring. A Niedermayer, Lidstrom, type is what they are missing....unfortunately for them, there is only a limited number of those guys out there.

Congrats to Pav, all of Richard's shorties are impressive but for overall defensive game Pavel wins hands down. I'm also happy for Kesler's nomination he deserves it. Maybe one of these years justice will be served and Willie Mitchell will get a Norris nomination that he's deserved a couple of times.

You are taking what i said completely out of context. Autika was saying that the Penguins don't have many positives to say about Crosby as their leader.....what I was saying was that when a captain sticks up for a teammate the way Crosby did for Malkin, it goes a long way towards adding to their reputation among the guys on the team as their leader, that he will stick his neck on the line for another guy on the team, it doesn't matter that Crosby didn't even land a punch, it was the principle of the action that speaks to his teammates, I know this all for a fact because I've been on teams where very similar situations have happend. When Autika insinuated that he/she had never played serious hockey before, then i lost my interest in his or her opinion on a subject that involved the attitudes inside the locker room of a serious hockey team....due to the fact that he/she had never been involved with one. It would be like a joe blow golfer trying to explain the what goes on in the mind of somebody leading the Masters on Sunday at Augusta, if you've never actually been there, then you're basically just blowing smoke because you have no real way of knowing what goes on.

By your own standards Osgood should get his number retired 1. "Commitment to the Red Wings - this can usually be circumvented if the player was traded against his will" The Wings put Osgood on waivers after they acquired Hasek, it was not his choice to leave, it's not like he was a free agent 2. "Inducted into the Hall of Fame" I laugh at the skepticism on this topic, Osgood is tied for 10th in wins all time with Hasek and is in the top 20 all time in career goals against average (ahead of guys like Hall, Belfour, Sawchuk, Broda, and Roy), he's won 3 cups, 2 as a playoff starter and may very well win a third this year. Case closed. 3. "Considered one of the best at your position all time" Ozzie has the same curse that Yzerman did, Steve played at the same time as guys like Gretzky, Mario, and Messier and was perenially underrated because of the surplus of talent that was all in the league at the same time. Ozzie played in the same time period as Brodeur, Roy, Hasek (who some consider to be the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best goaltenders of all time) and Belfour who is also one of the top 10 goalies to ever play the game. Had none of those great goalies played at the same time as Ozzie, he would be considered the greatest of this generation. An all time top 25 goaltender should not be downgraded just because he played at the same time as 4 of the top 10 all time.....also as far as Osgood wins being chalked up to the teams he played behind, Brodeur has spent his whole career with NJ, who up until the last 2-3 years had the most defensively minded and built team in the NHL, so you can chalk many of his wins up to that. Roy had numerous great players in front of him in Montreal for most of his time there, and had excellent teams in front of him in Colorado. Osgood should not be punished because he played for an organization that knew how to build a team. Osgood also has been one of the all time best playoff goaltenders. He's tied for 4th all time in playoff shutouts, and has a career GAA of 2.11 in the postseason. without a doubt he should be in the rafters

No offense to you or anything but any weight i put into your opinion on this thread completely went out the window when you told me you've never played hockey....you just wouldn't understand.

Crosby has the C on his chest, it would be embarrassing to have somebody else finish his business for him, the buck is supposed to stop at the leader, and believe me, if Crosby was having someone else finish his business for him (a la Marty McCsorley did with Gretzky) he would be made fun of on here by his haters more than he is already. As far as not being a leader, I disagree, doing things like going after Ballard after Ballard lowbridged Malkin last month gains alot of respect in the room, I don't know if you have ever played hockey before, but if you did at any serious level then you would know that a leader going after someone to protect his team gains a ton of trust and respect among the guys.

I don't know if they did way back when, but I am almost positive no team has went 16-0 through the playoffs, 8-0 maybe, when there were less teams in the league.....

Off of the top of my head i think the answers are never and no, although if I am wrong i am sure people will line up to criticize me for it lol.

I see where many are coming from on the topic of Draper, that he isn't a hall of famer etc. However, there is no rule that says you have to be a hall of famer to get your number retired is there? In my opinion, somebody who has their number retired should spend the vast majority of their career with the team and embody the finer qualities of the organization and of the city. To me that is quintessentially Draper, he spent most of his career with the wings, was a vital player on 4 cup winning teams, made an Olympic team and wore an A. Not to mention he was always a nose to the grindstone worker, and never caused a ruckus in any way, he just kept his mouth shut and worked his butt off for the betterment of the team and was a fan favorite. He is a perfect example of what every Red Wing should be, and that is why i think his number should be retired.

Ok i was wrong, Datsyuk was 29 and 30 however, Datsyuk did not turn 30 this year, but rather last July. I would say that Datsyuk was most certainly a late bloomer and this may not be the peak of his career, although very few male athletes reach their peak statistical performance in their mid to early thrities compared to their mid to late 20s (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, other athletes on juice nonwithstanding) and if he does improve his point output, I doubt it will be by much, thats just the nature of the beast that is aging. As far as Crosby's peaking offensive output, i didn't necessarily mean that he will be putting up 150 points seasons year after year, although if he focused only on offense then he would almost certainly be able to achieve those heights......what i meant is that through most of the next decade I'm sure he will work on other facets of his game (defense, etc) and spend less time on offense, but will continue to put up 100 point seasons year after year. You more than anyone would seem to appreciate a consistent level of offensive production while a player added a higher level of defense to his game.

Crosby played with Hossa for 7 regular season games and put up 9 points, then went on to tie for the playoff scoring lead. Roberts and Recchi are serviceable wingers and the Backstreet Boys are coming out with a new CD.....Oh wait, this isn't 1998 anymore, Roberts and Recchi have been washed up for years and Dupuis is a 3rd liner all the way, give me a break. Also Datsyuk put up identical point numbers to last year with different linemates but in those years he was 30 and 31, so for all we know he may have peaked, Crosby has not even scratched the surface of his potential- he is only 21 so to think that if he were put on the wings and made to play more D that he would just cease to get better offensively at the age of 21 is absurd.

apparently you don't read all the posts on this board, but my Crosby "letter" was in response to the post saying that Crosby should simply "tell Bettman he doesn't want to be the NHL's posterboy anymore". Not one time did I imply that Crosby had the most significant impact on the game in the last 4 years, I was pointing out his accomplishments to prove that he isn't exactly crumbly in his role as the NHL's posterboy......A role that Ovechkin, no matter how well he does, will never play due to his being from another continent, him looking like a scrub, etc. Like it or not, you can't ignore that the NHL will be feeding us a steady dose Crosby for the next decade, he may not have had the most significant impact (debatable, Ovie has more individual success, but Crosby more team success) but he is without a doubt the posterboy of the league.

Apparently, you don't watch the Pens very often, as far Crosby's linemates and playing with Malkin, refer to the post above by PensFan, he hit the nail on the head. The Wings 3rd line wingers right now would be the first and 3rd best wingers Crosby would have ever played with from an offensively skilled standpoint. (1. Hudler, 2.Kunitz, 3, Samuelsson) By the way Crosby already does get matched up against the opposition's top line....... As far as Crosby's point totals dropping and comparing it with Yzerman, I think you need to look a little deeper into the numbers...The season before Bowman got here Steve put up 137 points, he did not play another full, regular length season until 95-96 when he put up 95 points. 137 points to 95 points seems like a big drop but however when taking into account that it had been 2 years since he played a regular length season and put up those 137 points and, more importantly, that he was on the verge of turning 31, it is really not all that significant. Bowman's style of play certainly changed how he played the game, but the fact that he was aging had more to do with it than anything. To say if Crosby were put on the Wings for next season that his totals would drop is incorrect for many reasons, 1. He is only 21 and will keep progressing from an offensive standpoint up until around 26-28 around which time i think his points totals will peak and then will progressively level off. 2. He would have much better linemates than he does now which would only help him offensively and 3. He would not have the added pressure of leading a team, which would allow him to focus more on just playing hockey, this is the luxury that Evgeni Malkin enjoys now.

Yeaaaaa I could see that happening: Dear Commissioner Bettman, As i sit here staring at my Hart, Pearson and Art Ross Trophies, i have realized that after 4 very offensively successful seasons, 3 playoff appearances including a run to the Cup Finals, in my 3 seasons as captain that I really can't handle the pressure of being the face of this league, I mean I'm only 21 after all, I wanna have some fun! No hard feelings i hope.... Sincerely, Sidney Crosby

Osgood most certainly should get his number retired, i absolutely disagree.Look at the comparison between Ozzie and Sawchuk: Ozzie: He's won 3 cups with the wings, 2 cups as a playoff starter (and in '97 he played the majority of the regular season games) with another cup very possibly on the way. He's had 305 of his 389 (78.4% )wins in a red wings uniform, and 38 of his 49 (77.5%) shutouts in a Wings uniform Sawchuk: won 3 cups as a Wing, all as a starter, he had 361 of his 447 (80.7%) win in a cup uniform and 85 of his 103 (82.5%) shutouts in Detroit. Osgood will have just as many cups as a playoff starter and more total in a Wings uniform if the Wings win it this year. His win and shutout percentages as a wing are all very very close to Sawchuk's and he will almost certainly pass them if he plays a year or two more. He will be in the Hall, played most of his career in Detroit and is/was a fan favorite, it's a no brainer. Also, he did not go to Colorado and win a Cup, which would have been the equivalent of Sawchuk winning one in Toronto.

I was just thinking about whose numbers will be going in the rafters last night, here's what i came up with: Locks: Lidstrom, Osgood Probable: Shanahan, Zetterberg,Datsyuk (barring something unforseen happening to Z or Pav) Possible: Fedorov -The messy break up is the only thing that puts him in this category, Chelios-he played 7 seasons in Montreal and won a cup, 9 in Chicago and won 2 Norris Trophies, 9 in Detroit and won 2 Cups and will probably retire as a Wing....a very unique career, not many hall of famers split their career almost equally among 3 teams Longshots/too early to tell- Draper, had an A, won 4 cups and made an Olympic team, Franzen- if he can keep up his production for the majority of his 11 year deal

The only insulting thing in this thread is your lack of red wings knowledge. If you had watched hockey for more than the last 3 or 4 years (which is apparently the extent of your knowledge if you didn't even know who Probert or Klima were) you would know that Chris Chelios has been renowned around the NHL for over 20 years as being the mouthiest player in hockey, you would also know that other than Claude Lemieux, up until he was traded to the Wings he was the most hated player in the league by Red Wings fans. Also, i hate to break it to you but McCarty had an alcohol problem during most of his first tenure with the Wings, only when his level of play dropped off did we not bring him back, this organization has proven it is willing to look past certain flaws n people as long as they produce , that would explain holding on to Klima, Probert, McCarty etc. There is nothing wrong with this but don't try to paint the picture that all of the Red Wings have to be sunday school teachers or the organization gets rid of them, because it is simply not true.

Punching a guy while his teammate was holding him down is not exactly classy, you're right BUT it's not the first time it has happend in the NHL and it has absolutely nothing to do with immaturity, Todd Bertuzzi basically ended a guy's career by punching him in the back of the head and was lambasted (for good reason) nationally by all kinds of analysts, they called him dirty, a thug, classless, cheap, said he had anger issues,etc. but not once was it called immature because it had nothing to do with maturity, once again stuff like that happens from pee wees through the nhl. Calling out Lidstrom and Pav.....wrong of him to do it? of course, the right thing to do? no ,but once again that has nothing to do with maturity, in fact i'd say it takes some stones to call out the best defenseman and most all around player in the game today. He cannot handle pressue? Are you kidding me? He's been expected to resurrect the NHL since the age of 18, He's been compared to Gretzky since he was 16, He was handed the captaincy at 19 when every single player on his team was older than him. How has he responded? He has had 3 100 point seasons (and would have surely had a 4th had he not missed 30 games), has won a scoring title and an MVP, led Pittsburgh to the playoffs in only his second season, played in those same playoffs with a broken foot, In his third season led Pittsburgh to the Stanley Cup Finals, tied for the playoff scoring lead, and just led Pittsburgh to their 4th playoff series win in two seasons yesterday......and he's only been able to buy beer in Pittsburgh since August!!.......yea he's choking on the pressure alright Also for everyone that would love to give all the credit to Malkin, he's played on a line with better wingers than Crosby the majority of his time there, and isn't matched up against the other team's top line like Crosby always is, if you don't think that has helped his numbers out than you are crazy. Also Malkin doesn't have to deal with being the NHL's poster boy and he can hardly speak English, and im betting the Pens didn't all learn Russian during last year's playoff run so Evgeni could do the locker room talking.....Malkin's a great player and deserves a lot of credit but all in all Crosby is the most important player to the Pens hands down.

For all of you who are out there calling Crosby immature, PLEASE give me one good example of how he has been immature, and no, "whining to the refs" is not a sign of immaturity, players and coaches of all ages in all sports do it so i'd love to hear what you mean by his "immaturity".....Also, Ms. Hockey, since it takes "a certain caliber of person" to wear the winged wheel, then please explain to me why Kirk Maltby, who constantly hits people then runs away from a fight, Chris Chelios, who (when he still actually played) was always cheap shotting people and running his mouth, Bob Probert and Petr Klima, who got into NUMEROUS problems involving drugs and alcohol, and Darren McCarty whose alcoholism pushed him into bankruptcy were fan favorites?......apparently it doesn't take such a "certain caliber of person" to play for the Wings......quit being such a homer and open your eyes, the Wings have had just as many knuckleheads on their teams as any other NHL franchise, most of us are just too biased to admit it.