Opie

Of the lines I have never seen I would say KLM (I am not counting watching highlights or old video). Of the lines I have seen play the Homer in me says Yzerman Feds Shanny, but that is more the line I liked watching the most. The Tanguay Foppa Hedjuk line was badass as well. But I think the best line I have seen was the Trio Grande, that was probably the first real line I remember playing together. As a kid watching hockey with my Grandfather, I really didn't know much about the sport, I just knew my Grandfather made great popcorn when we watched Hockey so when ever I could I would watch it (in french which I speak exactly no words of). I remember these guys vaguely but well enough through the eighties that I would say they were the best line I have ever watched.

It was a marketing ploy/strategy. No one sat down and said that Detroit was the hockey capital of the world, it just stuck with the fans. There was no cognitive thought of, well Detroit is the best hockey market in the US, or we think Detroit is the best hockey town ever. It was marketing, they were trying to sell the Red Wings, not the franchise but sell the team to the fans.

Great point, my original post was to the person who called him underrated, because if he had only seen him in TO, that could be a valid judgment, I was trying to draw a little comparison, but you are right and I think the 'lanche will find that out in a hurry!

Just caught the Broduer comments. Even if Broduer looks remotely close to ordinary next year (doubt it) it is not just the recent history he makes his rep off of. He was/is an elite goaltender and the only netminders in his class at the same time he played (Roy and Hasek) are considered in a class by themselves, well themselves and Broduer. The guy was a machine, he made many great saves, is Roy overrated because of the teams he played on in Montreal or Colorado, NO WAY!!! But somehow Broduer is overrated, yet in the same post Osgood is underrate, wasn't the knock on Ozzie always the teams in front of him? If you are going to knock Broduer for the teams in front of him, Ozzie should be as well. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Honestly the same thing I thought when Sid and Yzerman were named 'C'! He is too young, but much like with Sid and Yzerman it will all be viewed in hindsight, what Sid is doing today could be nothing like how he is acting in 5-7 years, because of maturation. I personally think that a Captain should be a guy who has been with the club for at least 5 or so years and if not on the club for that long at least in the league for 5 or more years. How can a kid (he is a kid not his fault, he is just lucky enough to be talented to be in the league at such a young age) that has been in the league for 3 years understands how the league works, he is still trying to figure out how he fits into the league. He is being forced to grow up very very fast, again not his fault, but being in that situation IMO and experience, a 20 year old leader is being set up to fail. All of the expectations and pressure are on him. He needs to be the face of the league, the face of his team, and then he also needs to lead the team, all of this and he is 20. If the team fails he will be the one blamed for it, if three or four of his teammates, older or younger, tend to be out of control on the ice or cancers in the locker room, it will be his fault. In 10 years we may be calling him the best 'C' in the world but that is with benefit of hindsight, as of right now I think he is too young, not that I think he is a bad leader, I just don't think it was a good move. Says the guy behind a keyboard. EDIT: BTW can I see a link or a quote that says anyone on that team thinks he is a great leader or the one and only leader, or is this something I should take your word on?

Did you happen to see any of him in Boston? If not I can understand why you would think he is underrated, if you had you would see that his bad rebound control is a product of his own skill not anyone else's. He had good numbers in Boston, but just never seemed to be able to get over the hump, he looks like the real deal, he makes some great saves, but he tends to give up a ton of juicy, fat, medium rare rebounds. Having said that you put him in Detroit or Anaheim with a very responsible defensive corp of defense man and you have a much better statistical goaltender, because those defenses help him clear out rebounds. However, as you pointed out, in Toronto the GM paid lots of loot to offensive defense man, which unfortunately meant 50% (random number I picked) of his rebounds went to the opposition.

I was more refferring to the fact that they have a lot of similar traits, scoring ability(Iggy may be more of a natural scorer, but they both are very good scorers), playing defense (Z may be better but they both play very good defensively), leadership, but have play style differences like, physical play and set up ability. However my post made it seem like I meant they had the same skill set, poor wording choice on my behalf.

When did I say I thought he was a bad leader, I don't think he is ready to be a leader yet, my reasoning is he is too young, certain things come with maturity. For instance the thing with Z in the SCF after getting owned. A more mature player (not all Hockey players are mature, lets get that out of the way) would have accepted being owned, walked away and came back the next game with a chip on his shoulder to then own Z. I think that was a lapse in judgment, doesn't make him a bad leader, that is just an example of him not being a good leader at that moment in time. However, none of that changes the fact that nothing in the quotes you brought up has anything to do with him being a leader, so my question to you would be again, what about those quotes make the point you were trying to make? If the point you were going for is that the players respect him and have empathy for him for having to go through all of the media/face of the NHL crap, then yes those quotes hammered your point home.

I love how people try to compare the stick work from the 80's, 90's, or Gordie's day to the players today, IF players tried half of the s*** that Messier did back in the day they would be penalized if not suspended. This is a very different time, in a much more passive (at least in media and sports, just not Gov't) society we live in. Butt ending a guy was see as defending yourself from a hit back in the day, now we know what a concussion is and how they are incurred and how badly they can hurt you. So Butt ending is now seen as a severely heinous act. So, yes there are things that Yzerman, Messier, and Howe did that if a player did in today's game would be viewed as unacceptable even though in 1998 they were fine and dandy, just a part of the game. To me, butt ending a guy in the heat of a close game were you are fighting it out to the end is a very different event than slashing or butt ending a guy in the last 5 minutes of a 3-0 game. What Crosby did after being owned by Z was bad leadership, if you get owned by a guy so be it, step up next time and own him. However it does not make him a bad leader, it means he had a lapse of judgment, same with Iginla. Does one mistake or a couple of heat of the moment exchanges make him a bad leader, no, it just means he lost his cool. Some people are able to keep their cool no matter what, others blow up from time to time. Especially in a violent sport, where a lot of Macho guys are running around. Especially if you are a player of Iginla's ilk, what makes him a great Hockey player and leader is the way he plays the game, balls to the wall as hard as he can. However it can also be his shortcoming. But a shortcoming or two do not make him a bad leader.

I have to agree with the statement you are making, I really can't see a swap for the two, they are very similar skill wise players. The only reason I could ever see this trade/swap would be if they were both very unhappy where they were and wanted out unconditionally then maybe the teams would swap. But if they are both happy I see no way in hell fans, org, coaches, or players would want this trade made on either side. So therefore I see the Flames fans defending Iginla as much as Wings fans are defending Hank, I actually think, for once, one of these polls is a valid comparison because they are both top level talent, with a little different skill set.

Umm, either you mean Conn Smythe or you are thinking Datsyuk.

The first part, I must have missed your point I thought you were basing your argument on something else. I don't have the answers to the second part which is why I don't disagree just pointing out factors.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just a couple of points to make: The Full trademarked name as mentioned in other posts is Hockey Town USA, which would eliminate all Canadian cities. The popularity of Football far outweighs Hockey, plus you are talking about spending money on something that is around 41 times a year as opposed to 8. And even if the Lions suck ass, being a football team they are almost automatically going to be more popular, just because of the popularity of football. And when I watch the games it looks like the upper section is full, which is where I would have to assume the 22$ seats are, the lower bowl which appears to be half full at times is where the $120 + tickets are, if I am wrong please correct me.

I have a hard time calling Joe T overrated, whom has he ever had on his wing, Cheechoo, Michalek? Those are not scoring threats, take Joe away from them and they become very average players, if he had a wing like Hossa, Kovi, Heatley, hell even a aged Selanne he would be an absolute machine, as it is he has some damn impressive numbers. Thornton is a PPG player as well as a PMPG player, no not p.i.m.p, penalty minute per game (Yes I made that up!). 754gp 240g 516a 756pts 775Pims Yes his postseason stats have been not great, but again who has he had to make him better, even better question what teammate has stepped up in the postseason to make anyone think of playing Defense against another player on his team. Marleau is a complete playoff disappointment, and in Boston, well it was Boston lets just leave it at that! I have never understood the he is a overrated player comment. MY most underrated player would be Marc Savard, he passes and sets up almost as well as Dats, he is a very fiery competitor who should never have signed in Boston, he will rot away there right next to Bergereon and Lucic (unless they are lucky enough to get traded).

I love society:

How did those quotes answer any question about his leadership abilities, it answered his likability but not his leadership abilities? The guys you quoted appear to be stating that he goes through a lot of s*** being the face of the NHL, ok, I agree that has got to suck, but what did they say that makes you think they think he is a great leader?

Modano's stats 1320 528 755 1283 Better than Feds by a smidge, one of American Hockey's legends, if Feds and Modano are on the same Ballot I think the American Born thing puts Modo over the top. (I have type 3 sentences to explain why I don't mean that as a national thing, just what Modo represents to American Born Hockey players, but have failed all 3 times) Plus the 50 more goals doesn't hurt. I wouldn't be upset/surprised/offended by the fact Feds Beat Modo in, their stats are very similar, and feds has the individual awards that put him above Modo, like I said Modo has the American born thing going for him, other than that when they hang them up odds are they will be within a 10-20 goals of each other, very similar stats.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=Ag3h...p&type=lgns

Are you OK? I ask because Mats Sundin, JR I will give you some people like him some hate him, he will be a Jim Rice type of deal. Sundin? Mats Sundin? 1305gp 555g 766a 1321pts, that Mats Sundin, the Captain of the Leafs for 11 years, the guy who has never had a full season below 72 points? The only reason I can assume you are saying that is because Feds will hang them up before Roenick and Sundin in that case you would have to add Cheli to your list as well. But if Feds and Sundin are on the Ballot and all of the HHOF voters have one vote I would be willing to bet a months salary that almost every single voter would vote Sundin before Feds.

The only correction I would offer you is they gave it to him for marketing reasons, he is the face of the NHL, make him the face/'C' of your team. Maybe a poorly worded response but I think my point is delivered.

Those players COULD very well have a lot to do with when or if Feds gets into the Hall, they don't just look at individuals and say yes or no, they have to vote for the people in the class, and his numbers are dwarfed by the numbers of the players I put up there except for the great Floppa. I never said Feds wasn't one of the most talented players to ever lace them up, however the Hall is not based on Talent alone, and a bunch of 70 point seasons isn't screaming for induction, to me.

5 stanley cups including 4 in a row, 4 Selke trophies, 1 conn smythe, 'C' of the Habs for 7 years. a Member of Arguably one of Hockey's greatest dynasties 3 stanley cups including 2 in a row, 2 selke trophies, 0 conn smythes, never a C. I am not saying it won't happen, I am saying in my book he is not a stone cold lock. To say he is a stone cold lock to me is a stretch. The Hall has become a numbers based induction, and if he goes in compared to the list of players I put in an early post he is not making it. If Shanny, Jagr, Roenick, Recchi, and Sakic are on the ballot with Feds (Not a stretch at all, that easily could be a Ballot he faces) he will not make it into the Hall on that Ballot, I will guarantee that. Then once he misses the first Ballot he has to keep hoping that he doesn't face guys like Forsberg* (another Cam Neely induction), Selanne(552G), Neidermayer, Modano,etc. AGAIN, let me say this, I am not acting or pretending my word is what will get him in, but my opinion is he has a tough bit of competition coming up and the separating factor would be numbers. * I honestly don't think Floppa is HOF worthy by numbers either but I see the HOF putting him in, because of the ancient Tales of one Floppa the Great!

What HOFer forward has got in there because they won a Hart, Pearson, 2 Selke, 3 cups and had less than 500 goals? Got in based on Defensive ability as a forward? I am not saying he will never make the Hall, I don't have that kind of power, what I am saying is that his numbers do not scream HOF to me, he has less than 500 goals and will in all likelihood end his career with under 550, what HOFer besides Neely and Anderson made the HOF with those numbers. Again there are two examples, two examples I don't believe are HOF worthy, just proves I can be wrong, big surprise huh? I just don't see a guy in the HOF because he had a bunch of 70-80 point seasons with one 107 and one 120 thrown in there. Look at his numbers compared to the ones I threw up, those are stone cold locks. Jagr's numbers destroy Feds, that is a stone cold lock first ballot HOFer. <500 goals < 1200 assists do not scream HOF, but I will give you Cam Neely's numbers (again I am a fan of Cam) don't even remotely smell like HOF and he is in there, difference being the voters gave Neely some consideration because he was injured so severely for so much of what appeared to be an HOF career, Feds was never injured like that, he left Detroit and after one decent season became a 50 pt scorer. That will hurt him more than being the best (Raw talent wise) player on his team. HOF is more about career numbers than it is about individual awards, those things are secondary factors, and if the voters are on the fence that may swing them, probably will swing them. I think you guys are looking at it with a little bit of red wing glasses if you think <500 goals and < 1200 assists is stone cold lock HOF, when (again) Jagr who entered the league at the same time he did absolutely smokes his numbers. If Feds is in a class with a bunch of 400-500 goals scorers on his first ballot, he would win votes over them because of his individual awards, however if his class is Jagr, Shanny, Sakic and Recchi which is completely possible, Feds loses out just purely based on numbers.

Here is a thought and call it dumb if it is, but do you think they are trying to boost up GR to see what Howard can do with a good team in front of him, he did good last year with a weaker team in front of him. They appear to have signed and picked up so offensive talent, the D should be solid. Any thoughts?

Anyone obviously can answer, it is after all a discussion board. But Duck guy, with the situation in ANA for next season with all but 6 skaters being Free agents of some form next season, and after seeing Pittsburgh have a massive exodus how worried are you? Does the Burke situation and talk of him to Toronto worry you at all? Does this feel like a got to get something done this year philosophy or does being 2 years removed from the cup make it easy to take? Mods feel free to delete if this is a waste of space.