Opie

I would wager that he will only get in first Ballot if it is a weak class, his numbers don't scream HHOF, and remember this isn't voters from the 80's were they knew these guys in and out. Now it is an age where the voters are going to look at his numbers both international and NHL and make a judgement. I don't know anyone who got into the HHOF because they were a great two way player or they had a complete game, I know a bunch of guys who are in the Hall because what they did on the ice that you would say they were a great player or they were a complete player. That would be like saying Stevie is in the hall because of his leadership abilities, being able to play two way or being able to play D and forward will not help his cause, the Selkes and Hart may. He played with sure fire first Ballot HHOFers as well as players who were at the time some of the best in the world, Yzerman, Shanny, Fetisov, Larionov (even though he had shown his age a little by then), Lids (wasn't the greatest in the world then but is now so it really has no barring and not sure why I put it), Hull, Hasek. He was surrounded by guys whose numbers blow his away and that is only on his team, again not his fault. And for all of those "great" playoff numbers how many Conn Smythes did he win? Not saying you are wrong it is your opinion he is a lock, just defending my opinion, much like I assume you are defending yours! BTW this has got to be the most civilized Feds Discussion EVER!!!!!!!! That was a compliment!

I loved Cam Neely but I agree with you 100% Cam is not HHOF quality, that was the voters saying sorry about the injuries. Again I use the Dino analogy Dino is the only 600 goal scorer not in the HHOF, he and feds have similar point totals but Feds will need a lot to get to 600. But without looking at the name does 472g 674a 1146pts scream HHOF to you, and to tell you the truth while it is HHOF I think the international game has very little to do with players anymore, I think Larionov will be the last because his prime was during a time when he couldn't play in the NHL. I mean s*** he was 1/3 of (IMO) the best forward Hockey line ever, and only 2/3 of that line are in the HHOF. Again, no slight to his skill but those Russian teams were stacked which when voters look at will hurt him, undeservedly so. But whether or not he is HHOF is debatable, his numbers especially compared to people he played with are not staggering. Shanny 1490 650 690 1340 Yzerman 1514 692 1063 1755 I truly think the 600 goal mark will be his hang up. If he could have scored more with the Wings that could have affected his stats, IF the system was different. But instead of IFS lets deal with known qualities, after leaving the Wings when he had the chance to be the focal point when he was presented with being the #1 option on teams that were less offensively balanced than the wings what were his point totals then? I would say the wings spreading things around actually helped his stats as opposed to hurt them! But that is just me. Edit: GMR I posted this before I saw your second post!

There is a list 50 miles long (depending on font ) of players that had unbelievable single seasons, yes that is one of the best single seasons in history and he deserved all of the accolades he received that year. I say look at it this way Feds #'s 1213 472 674 1146 Dino C's #'s 1232 608 592 1200 Is Dino in the Hall, no! The argument made for him is that he is the only 600 goal scorer not in the HHOF, Feds would need at least 3 more seasons at his current rate to get to 600 goals. I am not saying Feds couldn't or won't make it in, I am saying he is not a lock! And IMO he is not HHOF, again when he was a wing he was one of my favorites, if that was one of the HHOF criteria there would be more Wing's in there and less from other teams, but unfortunately my opinion means jacks*** with the HHOF!

There have been talks of him being bought out but I haven't heard anything, but when it comes to B's news I have only been paying attention to is Bergeron (I spelled it right this time!!!) related.

Shanny could be the B's new Murray!! Bloated contract, overpaid and depleting in the skill category living solely off of reputation. They will sign him to 4 years, to impress the locals all they will care about is the name, and in 2 years he will be weighing the team down!

I would agree with you 100% IF..... The rinks were the same size!

So GMR all the consistent players in their prime get into the HHOF now? It is not the Hall of Consistency, He had 2 great years that were HHOF quality, other than that he was better than average, by quite a bit, but other than his two really big years he was not spectacular, plus for the years he was great in the post season there are years he was relied on and the team went no where, his fault or not. Plus team awards mean nothing, not having a Stanley cup could be a detering factor, however it is not going to be automatic because he has 3 Cups, how many players from the Oil's streak beyond the top line and pairings are in the HHOF, and that team was LEGENDARY!!! As much of a wings fan as I am, the Wings were not as dominant as that team was. Again he was ppg guy, no doubt I would always want a PPG guy on my team not denying his skill, however PPG does not get you into the HHOF, especially if he keeps having years where he plays 75+ games and scores 40pts that will drop his average. Again for 5-9 this guy was a great player, was the best wing for a period of about 3-5 years (Raw skill wise) but the drop off makes it like the goalie argument, the team around him obviously is partly responsible for his numbers, otherwise why when he left did his numbers drop, his first year in ANA was the only year where he put up Fedorov type numbers. Look at the comparison I made, Jagr and Feds came into the league the same year: Jagr Career stats 1273gp 646g 953a 1599pts Fedorov Career Stats 1213gp 472g 674a 1146pts Jagr without a doubt sure fire HHOFer, Feds I am not so sure. Again my opinion. But this is definitely a debatable topic.

You're right he is!

So you are saying that some of the criteria don't really hold value? Or hold less value than others? I know they are not your criteria they are the widely perceived criteria of the wings. But if he doesn't fit them all, as you stated they should meet all criteria, yet he is still a possibility, how is Shanny any less of a possibility? Konstantinov only misses one of the criteria, yet he is eliminated? I understand the reasons that the players I just mentioned won't make it (more than likely) just wondering how Feds skates by? So that everyone knows I am not a feds basher, I don't want him back on the Wings because his game is a shadow of what it once was. I doubt he makes the HHOF unless he goes off the next 2 seasons, he had some fantastic years in Detroit and had he played like that for his entire career, then without a doubt he is HHOF. But he had 2 phenomenal years with Detroit in which he scored 120 pts and 107 then he had a bunch of years where he was right around a PPG, not a knock I would take a ppg on my team any day of the week. But if you compare his numbers to Jagr, fair they entered the league at the same time, Jagr smokes Feds by all standards, 5 years with over 100 pts, once reaching 140, 4 seasons with at least 90 pts. My point Jagr is HHOF no doubt, first ballot, Feds is not first Ballot and may not be HHOF! Less than 500g, could reach that this year if he has a throw back year or he will reach it next season, 1146 points, could reach 1200 this year. Again his stats are not flooring they don't make you stand up and go wow, so Feds doesn't match the Leaving criteria and I doubt he makes the HHOF, and if he does it will not be a stone cold lock.

Eva I got the details just didn't want to get into them because the point was that after they left their careers were not what they were in Detroit. Also you caps WANTED was that suppose to be some sort of contradiction to what I posted? I put in parenthesis (their decision or team) because some left some were traded, the point to the post was that their careers were not what they were in Detroit. Sometimes I think you spend way too much time caught up in the details of a post or the stats that you forget the big picture and miss it entirely! But can you respond to my post asking you to explain how your criteria should have eliminated Feds yet you still have him on your list, or are you going to defer it and point out how the details of this post were wrong?

In that case I change my vote to the ZDHoLR line, because I have no clue who these Fetistov or Federov guys are?

100% agreement, I don't have them making the playoffs in any of my predictions, they have NO top 6 Getzlaf and Perry, really you want to bank your offense on those two, ouch!!! No shut down forward line, their D is great but there are a few overrated cogs, IMO, like Beauchemin. I just don't see how in a division that has Dallas and SJ they are going to take either of the top 2 seeds from that division. Is their defense better than those two teams, without a doubt, however the Ducks will have to deal Schneider or Beachemin and O'Donnel (highly unlikely as they only have 6 d-men right now) that will weaken that great D, plus their offense is not even in the same ball park as SJ and Dal. Lets say by the force of what ever body you hold holy, they keep Schneids, with this set of forwards no matter what team in the NHL you compare them to the gap between their offense and the other teams will far out weigh the comparison of D to D, with the exception of Tampa. I actually see Ana fighting out Tampa for most disappointing team of the year, they will both have high expectations, ANA because of recent success, and Tampa due to recent transactions. However one team will lose 7-6 more often than they than they only give up 4 goals, and the other will lose 2-1, 1-0 more often than they score 4 goals.

egroen, Look at the players that left via Free agency (their decision or team) for money look at their careers: Lapointe big bucks in Beantown, he became the crappiest 5 million dollar player ever!!! Feds we all know the story Kozlov granted he wasn't as bad as say Lapointe but he never really got much better after leaving, and I thought he was going to be great! There are others, but I think some one else mentioned it in another thread, the way this team is structured it tends to make some players look better than they are, some it makes them look really bad because they can't play puck possession (Hatcher anyone) not because they are bad players just a bad fit. But it tends to mask their bad play because everyone is working together, thus making players look better, and then you have guys like Lids who look like mere mortals unless you really watch what they are doing, I mean the guy looks like he is out for a Sunday Stroll half the time, but he is playing his ass off!

EVA, how can you use how the player left the wings as a criteria for taking them off of the list and then leave Feds on your list. If anyone exemplifies the leaving on bad terms it would be him, yet he manages to stay on your list of possibles?

To quote Maynard and sum up this thread:

http://playground.nesn.com/blogs/tapped_in...09/3187159.aspx Another article on Patrice, however if you go to the link the pic in the article is of Lucic? If she puts the interview online I will post that here as well, the last interview I saw of him, he was not Bergie, he was a solemn dark man who was not his jovial self. It would be good to see the spark back in him especially when you figure he isn't even 23 yet!

ok so the article isn't that in depth and the only quote from him is in the topic description but good sign I guess! Damn it!, why must I always spell his last name wrong!!!!!!!!!! ASSHAT!!!!!!!! http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins...wrap_day_1.html

I think Ericsson being the top D man prospect pushes Kindl down the list of next to the show pretty far. Not just because of his skill set, he could be just a step behind Ericsson, however that step behind him puts him 2 years out of the NHL because there isn't even room for Ericsson who according to Babs is NHL ready right now!

All of the losses, the 3 players traded, the rights that were traded away because Shero couldn't fit them in with Hossa, that is Shero's fault!!! He played his cards like Hossa was his, even though he had the lowest $ per year offer on the table, he low balled the guy, what did you expect, the only reason he took less than 8 was so he didn't rock the boat in Det. Because he realized that the chemistry in the Wings org is just as important as the skill on the ice. So Shero low balls him at 7 mil, then he trades away the rights for Malone, he lets Conklin go, loses Roberts, ALMOST loses Orpik, plus he lost 3 very potential laden players at the TD last year for Hossa, and yet Hossa not signing with the Pens is all on Hossa's shoulders. Shero didn't handle that poorly, oh no of course not, Hossa is just a Benedict Arnold!!!! Sure!

Emery, significant NHL name, no Jagr is a significant NHL name, Emery is a never was, not even a has been!!

The future this kid had in front of him is still there, yes it won't involve on ice hockey, but he is still involved in the Red Wings family, and his family his real future is healthy and growing. Best of luck to him in the future and I have a feeling he will be around the Wings family for a long long time. With all of this work with players I wouldn't be surprised to see him behind the bench in some capacity!

Ovechkin Hossa Crosby Thornton Lecavalier Spezza Zetterberg Malkin Iginla Lidstrom/Datsyuk tie

I would have to assume one or two things with this one: Scenario 1: ZDH stays together and Helm takes Kopay's spot Scenario 2 ZDH get split up Z and D both center a line thus freeing up another center. Flip could center the 3rd line or play wing on the second, draper could center the 4th line if Flip is on the 3rd. You know what I tried creating the lines here, but there are just too many damn options, every line had like 3 guys that could be on it in place of one another it was one big cluster f***. Man I bet a lot of coaches in the league are envious of Babcock and the 85 line combos he can roll out with his dressed 12!!!!! Not to mention the back end can be set up about 8 different ways too!!!

I voted for the Russian 5 because at this point in time the Russian 5 has a proven track record, the "new 5" may not ever even play even strength. Give me the proven entity over the unproven!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=Anzh...o&type=lgns Free agent signing rankings: 1. Detroit Red Wings – The Wings were surprise winners of the Marian Hossa sweepstakes, but they shouldn’t have been. Just because Edmonton, Pittsburgh and other teams wanted the services of the prime-aged scorer, it didn’t mean they had the recruiting advantage that perennial-winner Detroit possesses. Smart move, too, to sign Hossa for one season. He should stay motivated and, hey, if it doesn’t work he’s gone. GM Ken Holland acted quicker than usual in securing his backup goalie (Ty Conklin), and he got defensemen Brad Stuart and Andreas Lilja under contract. The biggie is still to extend Conn Smythe-winner Henrik Zetterberg.