Opie

I thought that was the case, but until I researched it I didn't want to post it as a fact if I was wrong!

Voting will be done before the Cup finals if they are not handed in already.

Oh and then there was the great and all mighty Beauchemin, who was supposed to be an Elite D-man!!! I love reading the comments on this thread, like this one: Homer!? ECHL!? Because I said they weren't the favorites, HA!!!!!!! you are an anti-homer, the guy who tries to take his favorite team down a peg just because!!!!!!!

Here is my question: If the team is fined for him swinging the Octopi around will a player who hits it with his stick get fined or a penalty for spreading octopi matter!! I can hear it now:

I have never been a huge fan of the guy but to say he would be worse than JFJ is a hard sell. So even if he does mediocre as a GM there, he will be viewed as a success compared to whom he is following. You never want to be the guy to follow a legend, but being the guy to follow a failure (in the eyes of Leafs fans) is not always a bad place to go. I mean seriously, how much worse can he make them, I mean besides bringing in Bert! Look at it this way, the Ducks have a ton of UFA and RFA players this year and next. Maybe he could take a couple of their players, then after next year he brings in Chrissy Boy!! Then Nashville is moved to Oklahoma and Det and Tor are in the same division. I can dream can't I!!! He could make the Maple Leafs better, could he make them champions, why not?!

That is great!!!!!!

Sorry I had to revel in this one, I took such a beating about my opinion that they weren't the cup favorites that I had to let it be known. It is just too bad Sticknmove isn't here for this one!

I had this conversation with my friend the other day, and this is not a who is better conversation so please don't turn it to that. I think about Gretz and the comparison to Crosby, he is supposed to be the next Gretz. There is a ton of pressure on Crosby to be the next great one, why not make AO the face of the league. AO has more energy, more elaborate celebrations, he to me would be the guy I would make the face. Crosby is like Gretz in the fact that I think both are happier to be a hockey player, they are much more focused on the game and are more intense players. AO seems to be more carefree and enjoy the game more. To me, and this is just me, but I would rather show AO jumping around playing like a kid, then the very concentrated focussed Crosby. Again this has nothing to do with who is better, but who paints a funner, more exciting picture of the game to help market it better. Looking at the two I would say AO's personality (like the joke about Brashear being the man to watch in this series) would help sell the game better. Thoughts?!

You have already seen that I agree with you 100% on the bolded part, I even think they trade him for a late round pick or package him with a young D-man (Lebda, Quincey, Meech) for a young enforcer type center man in the offseason. Physical effort is a preference you have, you don't like Huds for the same reason right, he gets pushed off of the puck, same with Flip. The difference you see is that Sammy is a bigger and therefore should be a more physical presence, well not every one plays that style. Kasper was a small d-man who crushed people, Jagr is a beast and hits no one and as soon as someone touches him he ******* and moans. NOW before you think I am stupid enough to compare Jagr and Sammy, I was just making a point that some bigger bodies are not hitters and some smaller bodies are. I am not saying blindly root for the guys, but you and others seem to be rooting against him, you never acknowledge if he does something well, hell the guy scored 40 points and yet some how he gets trashed and people want AARON DOWNEY playing over him. Sorry if I group you in with them, but some times it is hard to pick the few out of the majority. And yes I am in the minority of the people here that support Babs decision to play him in the regular season, but look at Wikipedia, the internet is not the first place I go for information that I want to be 100% guaranteed. The Internet making stupid easy since 1969!!! But you and I disagree on the Sammy issue, we have discussed this many, many times, but if another poster posts that Sammy sucks with out saying why he thinks that, I will be the first to ask for reasons, because I disagree. Then I will do like I did with you discuss it out, and if the person can't deal with the way I discuss issues, then they will think I am an *******, and nothing personal but the last think in the world I could care about is what a bunch of people on the internet think of me!

Oh I understand it working for the wings and that the wings could make it happen. But it will be hard for them with other teams promising him the moon, from what I heard this kid, as you said, could potentially be the best thing other than DZH, however if he is that good someone will offer him top line minutes like Van did. And seeing as he was willing to bypass Det for promised minutes in VAN, if Tor said you can play on our top line, it makes it tougher for him to say yes to det. I think Det will handle this the way they did Hossa, make a push for him, but they will have certain boundaries they will not cross, other teams are in bad enough shape where they will cross any boundary. I think they trade him for a late round pick to a team like EDM, PHO, BUF or NYI(maybe not NYI) a team that needs some form of a scoring presence in their young line up. A guy that can be had cheap and help out more than what they have. Or he would be packaged with Lebda/Quincey/Meech for a young, grinding, tough guy, centerman that can log a few games as an enforcer, but not be an everyday player, YET. I don't think they will get much for him, but I think he will be gone next year, especially with an expiring non expensive contract.

Because people feel bad for him knowing his sister was a better hockey player and will probably be a better coach!!!

I would like to add to this thread that Pronger got nothing close to a Norris nod!! Beauchemin was not nearly as good as you all thought. Now that makes next years d corp for them scary if those two go back to form but with no goals no cup!!

Anybody remember way back before the season started and I said they weren't the favorites to win the cup, I pointed out a lack of offense and a lot of you said I was dumb, a blatant homer, blind, etc, etc and that was before Neids and Teemu even hinted at coming back. Just a reminder: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...;hl=neidermayer in case you wanted to remember your stance before they lost!

What you seem to be missing in all of this is that he won't go down, he is pulling a Grigs. I shouldn't say that, all signs point to the fact that he will play NHL or go back to Sweden. Sammy, IMO, is gone next season, the emergence of Helm and Abdelkader as legit NHL capable players (not legit scoring threats or offensive power houses, but they can play in the league) Mule's emergence as a 2nd line guy has deservedly taken over Sammy's 2nd unit spot WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!! Then you have Hartigan and Kopecky who along with Abdelkader and Helm will be fighting for Drakes minutes, Downey's minutes will be split amongst those three as well as Mac (who will probably get the lions share). Other teams are offering him the chance at line 1 or 2 minutes, whether we like the idea or not (I don't) that has become a bargaining chip.

My real worry with this kid is in college (I haven't seen much of him in GR) he thrived on lots of shots, the more shots the better he got.

You are telling my Miller has done so much less than Lundqvist, seriously, so that would mean that you blame Miller for the lack of success he had in Buffalo this year with that bunch of AHLers in front of him. That team was a bad as Nashville to start the season. The only reason we are talking about Miller to the Wings is because Buffalo can't or chooses not to keep any talent around. How far has Miller gone in the playoffs, how far has Lundqvist gone, how many cups do each of them have? IMO, Miller and Lundqvist are a great comparison, both seem to be netminders of the future, how much they get paid is all a bunch of guess work. I just put that up because some one said he would make at least 5 mil, and I was of the opinion he will get a lot more than that. I have a feeling Tampa will throw a lot of money his way, they just lost Brad Richards and Prospal contracts, they need a netminder bad, and if they knew Detroit was the front runner offering 6.6 (a random number) they would offer 7. But I think they trade for Miller before he hits free agency. Buffalo does not want to lose him for nothing, EDM would be another team that would be hot for Miller. But either way this(UFA signing) cannot happen until after next season, which is probably perfect timing for Det and horrible timing for Tampa, they need something now and he won't be available, unless they throw a huge player back to Buf, for trade until into the season. But Det gets to see J-Ho for about 25 maybe 30 games, they have the steady net play of Ozzie to lead J-ho and be a mentor for him. If that combo looks bad or J-ho looks like he isn't cut out for it, they have the opportunity to look other directions, including going after Miller, the next season! Yeah that would be why I said USUALLY, there is always an exception to the rule if you look for it!

I don't know Babs is probably thinking: I won 54 games this season, 50 the year before, 58 the year before that and a bunch of internet geeks (I include myself in that ) are questioning whether or not I know what to do with my forwards. I mean s***, it is not like I took the team to the WCF last year and injuries depleted my D!!!!!!

That is my point his stats are impressive, but they are not horrible, they are average stats for a #6 forward. He hasn't done much to help? Really? Can you prove that, because for everytime Babs put ZDH together and the wings won, I would say Sammy's ability to play the #6 forward WHEN NO ONE ELSE COULD helped the team win. Not everything a player does to help the team win shows up in the stat sheet. Again don't confuse my defending him playing and Babs giving him the minutes for me being a huge Sammy fan, however to say he hasn't done much to help the team is bunk. IMO If you don't think he did much to help, fine your opinion, but state it as such, not that you know he didn't help, or that he should be traded for a bag of pucks. But again I say, enjoy the playoffs as will I, root for the team minus whatever player you want, I will root for the team, including Holland, Babs, Nill, The trainers, Al, whomever. But don't post your opinion and expect no one to disagree with you.

Oh I am not saying the wings promised him anything, I have no knowledge of that fact. My point is that he appears to be looking for promised minutes. And yes Drake's minutes will be fought for by Helm, Abdelkader, Kopecky, Hartigan (on the outside looking in) and possibly Brunnstrom. But I think Downey's minutes were just earned by one Darren McCarty. I agree Sammy's (rather Mule's as he is the heir apparent to that second line) Minutes will be up for grabs but again you are looking at 4 maybe 5 guys looking for minutes from 2 guys. If he wants promised minutes I don't see how Det can offer them as a bargaining chip, but they have the success chip, but not sure that will lure him.

Because I won!!!! J/K You said given minutes anyone could fill his role, I said I knew of two people who couldn't, you rightly said they could, but what I walked you into (sort of like chess) is that both of those players were on the top 2 lines already and couldn't replace him. Had you said, way to go asshat, those players are on the top 2 lines already, and player x could have done it, fine. I look like the asshat (which I am). But you talk like you know a player that could do better, I simply asked you who? I gave you two players he had better (well one was the same) numbers than. I am not sure how you proved that any wing with less ice time not currently in the top 6 could take his place. That is my point, unfortunately Sammy was the best option, next year and even in the playoffs I think Mule is the better option. However, during the season IMO that couldn't be said. I would have loved to have Hossa, Kovie, Ao, Crosby, any number of guys in the league playing over Sammy, however they weren't an option for the wings. I will take Abdelkader and Helm over Sammy, now. With Mule stepping up I am all for Sammy's minutes going down or him as a black ace, and giving a youngster ice time on the fourth line. I brought up Z and D because you were using SH% as your stat to base who should be on the line not Sammy, but that stat (seeing as it can't be used in a vacuum) also means that Hartigan would be better/more deserved than D, it was to show that you argument was flawed. I wasn't comparing D and Z to Sammy. See in a discussion there is this little thing called point counter point, you bring up something you think to be true and I point out why I think it to be false, it is how it works. Either way, enjoy the playoffs, I will be rooting for the team to succeed, you root for the team minus the players you don't like, me nor anyone else can stop you, but don't expect to post your opinion with out someone having a different one!

I think the biggest problem for Det is going to be to find a way to find this guy promised minutes. Who's place does he take? He is no more proven than Abdelkader, Helm, Kopecky, those guys will be fighting for Drake and Sammy's minutes, Huds, Mule, Cleary, and Flip (IMO) have all earned their minutes, I just don't know how the Wings can promise him minutes.

Oh Toby I see your point, and I already stated I have a WC biased.

I stopped listening to Pierre when I realized he was more of a hypocrite than Doc Holiday! He wants fighting out of the game but then he says he would take a team of Sean Avery's. I am not disagreeing because he likes Avery, but you can't say you want fighting out of the league and then say you would want this guy on your team. If you want a guy of his ilk on your team, than you can't possibly want fighting out of the game or Vice Versa!

I can see how you would think that, and I have no problem with you thinking that, I think the west is tougher, matter of opinion. But to back up what I said: if Pit or NJ played in the Pacific Pit would have been the 3rd seed and NJ the fourth and I would argue that Dallas was a better team than NJ and they only managed 97 points, but again that is a matter of opinion and I wanted to back up what I said!

Got to ask this question: Is Bergereon playing? If he was supposed to be healthy enough for the second round, why not game 7? I hope he isn't because I want to see him play in the future, he has the makings of a great player, well he did before the injury. I would hate to see him get hurt, but if he would be ok to play in 3 days why not now?