Opie

That is your opinion and while you are totally entitled to it, and I do enjoy a well played goalie dual. However, that opinion is not shared by most non-hockey fans, you may not see that as a problem but if you wish to continue to root for the Red Wings and have your children root for them, the NHL needs a bigger fan base. What sells in America, scoring. I know a lot of you are going to say Bettman is trying to turn the game into basketball, which by the way is a ridiculous argument to make. If I am not mistaken haven't there been a few (to say the least) 6,7,8,9, and yes even 10 goal games this year, granted in almost all of those the other team had 2 so the games weren't that exciting. Look at all sports, even Football, they have embraced offense because chicks dig the long ball. Do you think if the average American fan loved Defense and shutouts, Baseball players would have been allowed(by MLB) to use Steroids. Shrinking the Goalies pads a couple of inches is not going to be catastrophic, OMG they are going to make everyone use 35" pads like Marty Broduer. BTW: Just because I am an equal opportunity a-hole, anyone in this thread calling for the shrinking of pads and calling out Jiggy better not be the same posters that are posting about how great Ryan Miller is, his pads are not that much smaller! AND I HAVE BEEN WITH THE DARK SIDE SINCE CONCEPTION, YET I GET NO COOKIES!!!!

I agree Crymson, all of the posters in this new found pessimistic following, are the weirdest group of "Fans" I have ever seen. This very well could be the best wings team we have seen in a while, yet people insist on degrading every player except for Lids. Z was hurt and not going to be good in the future with a bad back. Dats didn't score enough, doesn't shoot enough, the list goes on and on. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO ROOTING FOR A TEAM AND ITS PLAYERS! And for those of you who say this board is no fun without differing opinions are really saying it is no fun without arguing. Because many of us have different opinions we just don't argue them, we discuss them in a civil manner, but then again common courtesy and common sense are not that common any more, so why would I think civility is!

Boston has no faith in him, I think you put him in a team like Det, Dal, Ana, Pit, Ott (esp here) and he is a well known goalie. Put a real threat in front of him or a real responsible D in front of him and he is very good. At times he is over aggressive but I think that is because he is used to standing on his head. I think he has a lot of Ozzie in his game.

Yahoo just gave dats an assist on the first goal. Did you guys know that before and Yahoo is just a little slow?

What about a guy like Tim Thomas? He may not win a Vezina but he has been pretty solid for some not that great Bruins teams.

I can't help but feeling some what responsible for Mule's tear, I mean I did start that thread asking how he was playing and then he went off! Alright I had nothing to do with it, damn it!

Seriously people call me crazy for defending him as a decent player, and I think you are nuts!!!

Avery just handed over the puck to Philly for the game winner in OT!!

So if they don't scout Europe well what is the deal with AO? I am pretty sure he was highly scouted and plenty of people knew about him.

He skated hard to make the play went wide and I thought he had a chance to set something up and then he just coughed it up, I mean pretty much passed it directly to the guy. There was no Ranger within 20 feet! WOW

Lest we forget Emery is not the only soap opera they had to deal with this year, their coach was fired, Emery is a weird guy (OH wait he is a goalie that was like saying did you know blue is blue), injury bug hit them before the wings. This team has been the biggest avalanche of the season, they were once every so called "experts" pick when they were hot.

WOW!!!!!!!

This thread is about expectations of players and not living up to them, fundamentally how can a player have lived up to any expectations if they are in their third professional year and under the legal drinking age! People expect him to be the next great player for his career not just a couple of seasons. Pavel Bure if he had played the average career # of games would have been phenomenal, what if AO, Crosby, Malkin turn out to be fragile or turn out to be the next Chelios and play until they are 50. WHO THE HELL KNOWS!!! It is physically impossible for someone who is an 8th into their career to have lived up to any expectations. There was a point in time when people were saying Joe Thornton was overhyped (Boston Media) and that he wasn't scoring enough. Those people look like fools. Let the kids mature and develop into their bodies, then be in their prime, then retire before you say they have lived up to any expectations! Edit: Before you think I am saying he will play 21 years it was an exaggeration!

Given his past I would expect Dom to say he is done when he is done. I wouldn't expect him to say he has the flu when he is done. Remember the year he gave back money. This guy would say I am done. Saying that I really think next year is Osgood then Howard, if Ozzie's play this year didn't earn him the post season (btw I have no care which one starts) start it earned him being the starter next year.

And I love the way you dispute everything I say with facts... oh wait never mind that is right, you try to make me seem outlandish by saying everything I say is ridiculous yet you never offer up anything other than your opinion. You know what I had you on ignore after the Trade deadline thread, then I saw someone quote you and it seemed logical and sane. Then I un-ignored you and you have proven that I was foolish to un-ignore you. Don't bother replying, I have ignored you again so I can't read it!

Sorry am I the only person who likes crosby, and hopes he becomes the next MJ. It can only help the game, and the kid, yes kid, is great I don't give a care if he is the next Gretzky or not. Do any of you that are his detractors think that being labeled the next great one adds pressure to him where as AO doesn't have to deal with that, Crosby is the poster child for the league, AO is not. AO can be a young adult and have fun on and off the ice, Crosby has the game on his shoulders. Not saying he does or doesn't desserve it, just that it is pressure on a young kid. I saw him play in the QMJHL and he is talented and plays hard. People who call him a whiner, who haven't you seen whine when a penalty is called, guys who get fighting majors because they know they can't argue it. Almost every other penalty every player skates to the box and whines about it.

I can defend that the man can pass, skate and shoot, your right and the next time the wings hoist the cup, I can say I never bailed on my team, well at least without lying! And you know what Sammy is 100 times the player you or any of the rest of us on here will probably ever be. But you are right I shouldn't defend him, spoiled red wings fans like yourself don't appreciate what you are seeing and I should stop pointing this out to, that way you can miss what you are watching and be blinded by the trees. You people ***** about a player on a team that just one 50 games for the third ******* season in a row. You are right he must be horrible he is keeping this team from winning 60! Edit: BTW How many times have the wings won 50 games without Sammy! (obviously I don't believe it happened because of him but it is a feasible argument!) But you know what, you root for the people/player(s) you want I will keep rooting for the red wings including Ken Holland!

Good one or bad one the sad part is it is a TRUE one!

OK not trying to be gross here just making sure everyone is aware of the things people will say (who are like me) when they know a female "Red Wings" fan is wearing a piece of string. Think about it, if it doesn't bother you than fine, I am just saying it may not be the best idea! Wow this is almost like the time I had to explain the grenade thing to my female friend who is kind of ugly, you are not sure what to say but you feel the need to say something!

I am a single 31 year old male, a s***ty patchy beard will probably only get me the same in return in a lady (I live in NH, sorry NH ladies on the board if there are any!?). But I guess I may have to this year, I am really hoping the wings win it this year just to shove it in the face of the fair weather fans!!! So I will pull out the horrible beard!!!! I will have to put a pic in my avatar so you can see how bad the beard gets!!!!!!!!

Saying there is just something about some one takes this from objective to subjective. You are now placing your criteria on the debate, once you do that you can't be wrong, neither can I nor anyone else if we are sticking to what we feel or our preferences. If it were me I would keep Crosby over AO because to me he has more to offer my team, yes AO can absolutely fill the net and that is needed, But: AO scores a lot of goals off of one timers. Crosby sets up a lot of one timers. Lids stops a lot of one timers. AO Dazzles in the open ice. Crosby Dazzles in the open ice. Lids steals the puck away from guys who think they are in open ice. But at least you used IMO, and didn't state it like a fact ! But again I think building a team around some one is different than best player in the league. I would build my team around Lids, no doubt, defense wins championships in my book, but I would still have him at best #5 looking in on 4 other players. The best part about his discussion, debate, argument is that 3 of the players I mentioned and others have been floating around are all under 25!!!!!!! Good for the game, then you have guys like Toews, Kane, coming a long that look like great players. The youth of this league looks promising!!

That lids comment was a little homer-ish, he is the most valuable wing (IMO) but to say he is top 2 in the league players wise is a little bit of a stretch. As D-men go he is the best in the league hands down, as far as overall players go, not so sure. IF he was lighting the lamp at a torrid pace as well as getting the assists he gets, the +/-, toi maybe. But he only has 8 goals, 8 goals is plenty for my expectations of him BTW, but the last D-man to win the Hart award was???? and what were his offensive numbers. Pronger 14g 48a 62 pts 52 +/- 92 pim. Edit: Damn not finishing thoughts: I don't think Pronger deserved it his year. And yes I understand that as far as D-men go he is great, awesome, phenomenal, whatever adj you want, but if you are talking best overall players in the game I would have to say 4. Thornton, 3. Malkin, 2. Crosby, 1. AO are better than him. I would put him in the top 10 maybe he takes the 5 spot, but I would be hard pressed to say he is a top 3 player in the league. But this is like comparing Dats and Hossa as in who is better, they provide a lot of different aspects to their play, I prefer Dats over Hossa, but I can see how some one would go the other way. Maybe you like the pure goal scoring Hossa brings, maybe you like the puck handling skill dats has. Picking the top 2 players in the league you may pick Lids because you think D is the most important aspect of the game. However without you clarifying that I have to believe you are going on play alone. In that case in my mind Lids would be top 5 at best but not top 3.

I would say this year AO and Crosby have been the best offensive players in the game, followed closely by Malkin.

Wow Harold looking at your Avatar and that pic side by side is scary, they look eerily similar!!

This feels like it is turning into an Old Spice hair and body wash commercial!! Is a playoff beard right for me, yes officer. What about me, yes criminal. I have hair here and here but not here, is a playoff beard right for me?