Opie

I was thinking a similar thing when the wings played the Stars last, Modano's jersey was waving in the wind behind him like it was the old jerseys. It looks like some of the players have decided that snug is not the fit for them.

Anyone else remember hearing him say that he f-ed up his hip in the All Star game?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AgBA...o&type=lgns Wings 4th behind SJ, NJ, Ana 4. Detroit Red Wings (47-20-6, Previous: 2) – First you’d have to determine who is the backup? Chris Osgood has gained the bulk of the starting assignments based on the fact he’s had a better year statistically and Dominik Hasek has been in and out with injuries. It’s a 1A-1B situation in Detroit where, sure, a goalie can have a bad series but the team doesn’t feel like it has to worry about what it’ll get in goal come playoff time.

See here is why I think Broduer is underrated (If possible). If Broduer started his career or was born 5 years later he doesn't have to play in the same league as Roy for the majority of his career. And he would get even more respect than he does, however he is still not better than Patty Roy. As much as I hated his beady little eyes, and that stupid statue of Liberty save, he was/is the best netminder in the NHL history followed by Sawchuk.

My criteria for my logic here is a little flawed only because Dats didn't get hurt. To me there is no way after seeing what happened to this team when Lids was out that any one on this team can be any more valuable than Lids. Don't get me wrong, I am defending Dats in the Selke thread, because to me there is an outside chance he could win that one. But I got to say that Lids has definitely been the most important player for the wings. When Z was out they still won, Homer out, they still won, secondary scoring went flat right, they were still winning, Lids went down, losing streak. Now I know technically the streak started before he went down, but I think his absence prevented them from coming out of it. I can not believe how well he (lids) has done as C following Yzerman, usually you never want to be the guy following the legend, like Lewis following Bowman. Back to Dats, I don't think we will see him plateau off for another couple of years, he is getting into his prime and he has such a great mind for the game that I think he and Z will be great players for at least 4-5 more years (barring injury), and maybe he contends for Hart in a couple of years, but not this year. And if WAS makes the playoffs, imo, I have no idea how you can't vote for AO.

So because you don't like a player, the rest of us are idiots or stupid or whatever for thinking he could actually play in the NHL. I have an idea, post a legit replacement for him. I won't respond until you tell me what healthy wing/griffin/general should replace him as a top 6 forward.

Am I the only that finds it funny Gretz was on that list. I am not saying anything about his abilities to play the game, but was he really that great of a leader. And doesn't having Messier around kind of make him a null and void leader. I mean Shanny and Lids were behind Yzerman when he led but I wouldn't put them in the top category of leaders of all times.

I love you guys, seriously really I do. You want to trade Sammy who is in the top 10 in G, A, and PTS yet D-mac who has yet to do SQUAT this year in the wings uni should be a starter. LIVE IN THE NOW WAYNE!, LIVE IN THE NOW!

When Pronger and Campbell had their convo I bet it went down some what like this: Pronger: I've been tryin' to go legit. CC: Of course... Pronger: But when you're an overweight child, in a society that demands perfection, your sense of right and wrong, fair and unfair will always be tragically skewed... [farts] CC: Did you just soil yourself? Pronger: Maybe. [laughs] Pronger: It did sound a little wet, there didn't it? Right at the end! Oooh! Heh heh heh. Let's have a smell, all right? Oh, everyone likes their own brand, don't they? Oh, this is magic! Hmmm, wafting, wafting. Ok, analysis. Ooh, smells like carrots in throw-up! Oh that could gag a maggot! I smell like hot sick... ass in a dead carcass! Even stink would say that stinks! You know when you go into an apartment building and you smell the other people's cooking on each floor and you go "What are they cookin'?" That, plus crap!

Alright so lets say that one maybe two of those guys go down, injuries do happen in a physical sport. What do the wings do then, forfeit the lines. Ok your top two lines can go out but since we decided only 6 guys can play on our top two lines, our first line will be 3 players and the second will be 2. So Hudler has no potential, Sammy (nevermind you won't get it, or me not agreeing with you will be seen as me being a sammy slappy or red wings homer). But wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago that Franzen couldn't do anything, now he is on a hot streak and he is a legit top 6 forward. Come on dude, seriously.

I think the Mitch Albom quote summed it up best and it used to be my sig, it was something like, there will be many captain, but only one will have "THE" in front of it!

Yet the leadership award is named after Messier.

And the NHL does not miss Yashin!! Maybe the Isles, but I doubt it!!

That also makes it your opinion! I will have to disagree with your assesment of Draper and Malts being the best PK duo, again there was a point in time where they were one of the best in the league, not any more. Sammy plays with Z, really every game, he didn't play on the third line at all this year, he didn't play with Draper and Drake at all. So what you are telling me is that you have different expectations of Maltby, it is ok that he never shoots he chooses his shots wisely. OK, again your opinion. If Maltby is such a great option why then would a coach who is trying to win a cup and is 47-20-6 right now, make the horrendous mistake of keeping a sure fire 2nd liner like Maltby on the third line. I KNOW, IT IS A CONSPIRACY!! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!! I know why Babs uses Sammy now, it is not because he is a better option than say Maltby, it is that the Ducks are still paying Babs and he is trying to set up Det to lose. I love how people still think Maltby grinds and hits, D-mac and Draper did most of the work on that line, when it was the great Grind line. Maltby was an excellent PK player, Maltby was once (as in one time not as in the past) a 20 goal scorer. Maltby was a great agitator who had D-mac to cover his ass. I am done arguing that Maltby is currently a better player. That is your opinion mine is that he is not. I guess we will have to let the coaching staff and the team decide that.

Sure I will play this game: Ok dude you lost a lot of credit when you said he could be on the second line and that he scores, Sammy in 1/3 of the games has scored over half of the goals Malts has. Maltby has been a very good career third liner. Most minutes per game in a season just over 16, ave about 13. What in the hell is Maltby purpose behind his 1 sog a game! That is right 58 SOG in 53 games! Maltby hits, yeah he is a huge hitter I know players all over the league are afraid of Malts. Maltby used to be those thing you listed but when was the last time he did any of that!!! Maltby has 30pts in the past 2+ years, Sammy has over 30 this year alone! Maltby has 16 goals over the past 2+ years, Sammy has 48 (of his 67) in that same span. In the past 2+ years Sammy is a plus 46, Maltby is a -23 (mind you on one of the best teams in the league in the past 2+ years). Maltby kills penalties out of necessity at times (hmm funny that is the same reason I said sammy was on the pp point, necessity), the main PK guys are Draper, Z, Cleary (when Healthy), and even Drake has seen more PK time this year than Malts(after researching that I could be wrong about the Drake part, I can't find a PK time stat and I am not hunting it down right now). Maltby's career year he had the following stats: 82gp 14g 23a 37pts 17+\- 91PIM (02-03) Sammy's career year: 71gp 23g 22a 45pts 27+\- 42PIM (05-06, 06-07 probably would have been but he only played 53 games, oh and in those 53 games he almost had Maltby's career season.) So yes at one point in time in his career, Maltby may have been a better player than Sammy, However at this time and over the past 2+ seasons: HE IS NOT!!!! Now you will notice to back up my point I used facts and things that I can back up with proof, not my opinion that Maltby is a better skater or shoots with more purpose, things that are impossible to prove or disprove. Oh and your zinger was dumb! But that is my opinion, not a fact!

Care to back that up with something besides your opinion?

So then what healthy Forward should be playing in the top 6 besides Sammy. I never said he is a top 6 forward, I said he plays a role. And when Cleary and Homer are healthy that makes his role less. There are injuries right now, and there are certain things the coach wants to see on the blue line of the pp, these are the reasons he plays the way he does. It is Babcock's and Holland's and Mr. I's team. If they had a problem with him in the role he is playing they would change it. Look at my post before, his stats are not horrible, they are not great but would you rather pay twice his salary for: Doug Weight (about the same stats, a little less) Peter Schaefer Tim Connolly I could keep going team by team to find guys who make about twice his salary and are playing similar or worse hockey in a similar role. I am not trying to say that Sammy is a great forward (which I think because I am not saying he is garbage some of you think I am saying he is great) but he is not as bad as you make it. He gets blame when some one can't handle his pass even though it may hit Z on the tape, you people claim he passed it to hard? WTF? How on earth could lowly Sammy who can't even pass according to you guys, hit him on the tape, and then have passed it too hard. The man is not a great hockey player, but much like Huds, Lilja, Lebda, Kopecky, etc... you cannot have a successful team in the salary cap era without these guys, cheap role players. Look at Tampa, they threw tons of money at a couple of players only to suck and have to trade those players, because they don't have two things, cheap role players and solid goaltending. I have no problem, btw, with people saying he shouldn't be in the top 6, as I believe he shouldn't be, but there are some of you that completely discredit his abilities because you are spoiled wings fans and have no clue what it means to root for a team that sucks ass! You see some one not doing what Dats, Z, Cleary, Homer, Franzen (as of late, even though most of you gave up on him, cough*), and they are trash player and their is no need for them to see any ice. What you don't realize is that every day their coach sees them, all of them, and if anyone on the team stepped up and showed they could play the way and style Babs wanted in place of Sammy do you really think he would risk his job because he has man love for Sammy. He can cut Hud's/Sammy's minutes, or anyone's for that matter, when the team is healthy and firing on all cylinders. When the team is trying to rebuild from an injury streak, or certain players are out, or when certain positions (like 2nd pp point) need to be filled a COACH must fill those holes with what he has. THEN he has to make that player think that he has all of the confidence in the world in said player, otherwise that player will go out there thinking, Damn my coach doesn't think I can do it, I must suck at this!!

I never ever thought I would say this, but I agree with and think what Simon is doing is 100% correct. Not only that I will go so far as to say I think other players should be stepping up and backing him up. I know that won't happen, but it should. How is there anything different in these situations other than the star power involved. I agree that Simon's infractions were more severe so a 30 game suspension would be too much for Pronger as he is yet to have two handed a guy across the face, so 20 games. 8 is a joke, like some one said in another thread, it is like a suspension from school, a mini vacation.

When was the last time Sammy had a turnover on the pp Point that led to a SH goal? When was the last time Sammy cost the wings a game with a mistake? To be fair: When was the last time Sammy won a game for the wings? *I am not sure, but he isn't costing the wings games. All of your bitching and moaning about one player who isn't as good as the rest of the team (in your eyes) is pointless. Every team has a worst player, you think it is Sammy, I disagree. Right now he is 7th on the team in points, 5th on the team in assists, 9th in goals. So by doing basic elementary level math we can see that not only is he not statistically the worst player on the team technically more than half the team is worse than him. Now the only fair comparison we can do is stats wise. Your eyes, my eyes all see different things when we watch the games. You have different expectations of a player and I do. But you arguments that he sucks, have no factual basis, now I know you are going to come back with do you watch the games? It is like saying to some one who disagrees with the war, "You are not a Patriot" it is said to stop the conversation not to back anything you are saying up. Is he my favorite player, hell no, is he the best, hell no, is he the worst, hell no. But see the way I look at things is like this, the team is in 1st in the NHL and have been there almost wire to wire, they are 47-20 and have already locked up a playoff spot and for all intents and purposes have locked up the division. NO TEAM WILL GO UNDEFEATED, so chill out, the guy has a role that is dictated by his coach, a guy who knows a whole hell of a lot more about hockey than any of us yahoos do, otherwise we would be in his spot behind a bench some where. I agree Stuart should be on the pp point, but maybe just maybe for some reason he just isn't clicking with the 2nd unit, OR maybe, just maybe Babs, you know the head coach, the guy in charge, wants a right handed shot on his pp, and seeing as this team has all of 6 Right handers that puts a limit on what he can do. In case you want to put one of those guys back there here is your list to choose from: Sammy Cheli Ralf *On PP 1 Mac Downey Maltby I am not saying better options for what I would do don't exist but I am not the coach. This team is 47-20-6, Babs has them ready to go, he just recently got them over a long losing streak. Youngguns, Seeing as you know it to be unexcusable to have Sammy back their and Babs has the team at 47-20-6 that must mean you could have coached them to at least 50-55 wins, right? So which team are you coaching next year, because I know which one Babs will and you won't be coaching and that would be the Red Wings. Now before you go with the this is a discussion board, am I supposed to be a red wing slappy blah blah blah crap that is another statement intended to end the conversation not back up your point. And you are calling his moves inexcusable, yet I believe he has taken more teams deeper into the NHL playoffs than you have. So the only real argument I need, is BABS is the coach of the team. See how I left another opening for you, so that you could say "So we as fans have to follow what he does like sheep?" or something to that affect, well yeah when he has had the team in 1st from wire to wire. This is like people bitching about not getting Hossa, personnel moves are left up to the team, if you want to critique them or say better options are out there, but don't state it like you could do better or that you know for a fact what a 47-20-6 coach doing to be wrong. HELL SAMMY IS STILL A BETTER HOCKEY PLAYER THAN THE FOLLOWING LIST: Downey, Kopecky, D-mac (could turn out to be better, but hasn't yet) Drake, Maltby, To name a few.

Ok so I am sure this was covered in the GDT thread, but I have to ask, was his game on Sunday that good? I only got to watch the highlights, but at one point in time the announcer said he was taking over Homer's role on the PP. Now he said it pretty emphatically, I assumed that to mean that he is really coming into his own (on the pp at least). My question is to those who watched the game and the past couple, How has Franzen looked?

The monarch's went to Europe and brought back two goalies and I haven't seen Clouts in a long long time. BTW Manchester Monarchs are LA's Farm team!

You know what cracks me up about the people who ***** about him hitting the goalie all the time are the some of the same people that in the goalie equipment thread or ***** about equipment because it takes away room to shoot, or say that defensive styles block shooting angles and make it harder for players to hit the net. But when they talk about sammy it is he can't hit the net. I love in the GDT threads when Zetterberg, Dats, Lids, or any other red wing misses wide it is no big deal. Sammy misses wide and it is a crisis and the guy is horrible. But you know what he is no where near as talented as the three wings I listed, and they miss the net too. Sometimes we as a group of fans on here really live up to that spoiled fan reputation we get!

Hank=Futurecapt, You my friend are the blind one so please stop lashing out at others because Lucic is better than you and you are jealous, or you are upset he is not on the wings, or Lucic s*** in you cereal, or you are just plain D-U-M-B, or whatever your reason. Lucic is 19!!!!! He is a rookie! He has beat veteran fighters. He is a locker room guy. He plays hard every shift. Boston fans love this kid for a reason he is legit. Oh and by the way how many times did Shanny take on a legit Heavyweight? Oh that is right that was D-mac's job so he took on the middles. I am by no means the biggest fight fan on this board and I refrain from giving judgments unless it is obvious who wins, that fight Lucic won!!! Pretty nice that it was at the opening face off!!

He had the take away and a spin move to get away from a flyer for the B's to tie the game with 26.4 left in the game!

Yahoo only shows it as a 2 min minor? Did he get 4?