Opie

I was one of the people that didn't want to trade Flip, unless it brought the Wings something major in return. To me this would be major, I would do it in a second. This kid is 19!!!!!!!

Sorry if this is a little late but I just saw that Hudler got a roughing Penalty, so much for soft Euro huh?? Just kidding about the last part, but I was shocked to see him get a roughing call. Babs must have told him Downey was out and he had to step it up.

Watching this kid today I realized what I like most about him, he never slows up, never changes his game. He just goes 100% even when they were losing 10-2 he was still going hard on his last couple of shifts. This kid in one shift just nailed a flyer to the boards and then made a jumping play to keep the zone, settle the puck and rip a slapper that Biron struggled with and left a decent rebound that no one on the B's could do with. Regardless I really enjoy watching this kid play, he may not be the next Crosby or AO, but this kid could be the next Shanny type power forward. He is mean SOB, and plays hard non stop. Atleast the B's have one good thing for them.

You know what NVM!!

I know this is a dead horse subject, but the supposed fight fans and non fans thing is a little over played. The Supposed non fight fans under value Downey (I am an avid non supporter of Downey due to the fact he is a part timer, not a full time player. While I agree the Wings need toughness, I see it as a moot point if he is in the press box. Please don't confuse that with an Anti-fight fan) they point out things like he can't skate or control the puck. It is like the sammy arguments. Honestly if the dude couldn't skate or control the puck he wouldn't be at this level. Is he as adept at it as Datsyuk, no but he is not as inept as, say ME!!! The Supposed fight fans overrate Downey (I believe mainly because it has been a couple of years since the wings had some one who would throw, and be an actual threat to hurt some one!), but there is a reason why Downey has never played a full season in the NHL, there is a reason why Downey only plays 5-7 minutes a game (avg). He is on pace to set a career record for number of games played, PIMs, and SOG. Yet there are those on this board that want him benched permanently, bad idea, for a D-Mac that hasn't done s*** in the NHL in over a year. And then there are those that want him in every game with more minutes. Both sides have to realize what Downey's role is. I think Babs is using him perfectly except for the teams he chooses to sit Downey against. There was SJ game I remember specifically earlier in the season where he sat that followed a weaker (physically) team he played against. Downey is middle weight who is not afraid to take on anyone to protect his teammates, awesome love that want more of it, I just would like it in a player that can play 70+ games a year, and if possible put 8-10 biscuits in the basket. But mainly is some one that can play and be counted on. Not saying Mac will be that again when he gets to the D (Probably will be a shadow of him former self) but what he was in his prime is what I would like to see, I guy who plays nearly every game, can score, can play a solid defensive role. Having said that I realize that Milan Lucic or a similar style player is not easy to come by. But like most opinions on here, people differ and due to differing it seems like people become more aggressive with their opinion and make reasons for their opinion to be right. Downey V. Lappy was what I expected of him, his minutes what I expected of him, fights are what I expected of him. IMO any one that expected more than 45 games from this guy had high expectations. While those expectations came true this year (as far as GP), it is not like he had a Dan Cleary type transformation where all of the sudden Downey is going to start getting multi year contracts and playing 10 minutes a night all of the sudden with G and A's. This situation was very good for both involved. Det got some toughness, and Downey gets to be on a cup contender and this year will only help his reputation.

MY B I meant forwards, but you probably knew that!

Eva sometimes I think you forget that your opinion is just that your opinion, because you like to state it like it is a fact. I know you like to wow people with your stats and logic, but in this case I disagree with you and that is my opinion. I think Dats is the best two way player on this team. I agree +/- CAN be a misconstrued stat, however look at what Dats is doing as a whole, he has great takeaway numbers, regardless of where they happen sort of like an ENG on the stat sheet it shows up as a G that is it, A great +/-. But you're telling me that his +/- in this specific situation is a product of him being an offensive player on a defensive team, yet he leads the team in takeaways? Just because he doesn't put in work on the PK doesn't mean he can't. It could mean his coach wants his best player to be ready for the next shift after the PK. Who knows what babs is thinking. But as caught up in the +/- minus stat some people get you get as caught up in disproving it as a valid stat.

What is this fair weathered fandom you speak of, you mean people only rooting for the team when things go their (the fan not the team) way!! NO not on the internet!! Surely you jest, Don't call me Shirley!! (Airplane, anyone!)

Nice, obviously a typo, but that picture sticknmove just posted will probably end up on the Downey Family mantle framed and laminated for generations to awe at!!

I didn't want to say it, but one of the reasons I think wings fans are so enamored with the Ducks D is that they are physical, they hit, smash, play on the edge. A lot of Wings fans have wanted to see that from the Wings, well since the end of the Avalanche rivalry. So I think the bold part is what impresses a lot of people. But here is what I and others thought about this issue at the beginning of the season. Interesting how things turned out, things that make you go hmmm!! http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...;hl=neidermayer It is amazing how much of a "HOMER" I was for actually believing the wings may be better than the Ducks, how dare I think that about the team I root for in the preseason and early season, when I should have been the anti-homer and said the duckies (with no neids and Teemu at the time) were the best ever. Good thing I wasn't right about the Wings being better than the ... oh wait nevermind. Now I am not saying the Ducks couldn't win the cup, but as far as regular season goes the Wings are the better team, well that goes for all teams in the league not just the ducks. I will say though that I had the Sharks as the favorite, egg on my face for that one. It is amazing the number of "Experts" on this board that really missed this one!!

So after finally seeing the video, it looks like he got his leg free, foot on the ice for a brief half of a wink and then stomp! Do I think he should have been suspended yes, at least 10 games. AM I surprised that he didn't get a stitch of fine or penalty, No, not at all!!

GS&T All very good points and that is why in my original post I put I could see people going either way. It really is a preference, there are a lot of different things to look at when comparing them. And if you like toughness and I said I liked the puck moving ability, we would both be right based on our own criteria. Similar to the Martin Havlat thing, I had no problem with you putting him on that list, you qualified your answer with your requirements for that list. I do think their physicality was a problem last year, but not as much as DET missing two top dmen last year. Yet another dead horse argument (where is your jpeg).

I would disagree with you, I think the Wings D when healthy is a tad bit better. I can see why personally you may see it the other way, because I don't think the difference is that great. Lids > Neids *Ralf and Pronger are really not comparable do to different styles of games but I would give the nod to pronger if pressed to compare them! Stuart(Kronwall, same results) < <Pronger (If you wanted to compare similar styles or play) Ralf > Schneids Kronwall = Beachemin (hasn't really shown me much this year, but I haven't seen a ton of him) Cheli > O'Donnell (He may not get credit but he is a damn fine defenseman) Lilja > Huskins Lebda < Huskins An easier way to compare Lids is by far the best D man of the group followed by Pronger (this year) Neids Ralf Schneids Kronwall/ Beachemin Cheli Lilja/ O'Donnell Huskins Lebda/Meech/Quincey/Ericsson/Bergereon (only utillity Dman I know of on the ducks). By the way (no shot at you GMR) I have been wondering this, if some one who thinks there team is the best at something (when it is a legit comparrison) is ahomer, what do you call people who are always saying it is some other team and those who think otherwise are Homer's! It is like people use that as a tag line so no one will dispute what they say. I am to ignorant (Or arrogant) to heed the warning and post my thoughts anyway, but I am just me!!! EDIT: To me the Can of the 70's D is untouchable at worst. You would be hard pressed to find a better defensive team skill wise at the time and in all of these fad compare generation web polls!!

I agree it is the fact that they seem to know how the game will unfold in front of them, neither ever seem to be that far from the puck, nor the action. I am not saying Dats is the end all and be all of the team or the Selke award, but he is a very very good defensive forward. I think the majority of the "issues" in this thread is that much like the Dom/Ozzie phenomenon where instead of rooting for the team people root for their guy. Z has his followers and D his. Then their are those of us that support the team and it's players. Neither is technically right or wrong just how we root. However it seems as though anytime some one mentions either D or Z without giving credit to the other, the other's following feels slighted or insulted. Why Dats won't win the Selke is simple. He is a very very good defensive forward on a team with at least 4 very very good defensive forwards, and one of them happens to be on his line from time to time. So he never stands out, then you factor into that equation the fact that the team as a whole is one of the best Defensive teams if not the best in the league. All of those things make him a less attractive vote, same with Z, same with Drapes, same with Cleary (when healthy). Because the team as a whole does so well, guys don't have the chance to stand out and make people take notice, they just look like another Yzerman type guy who plays a great two way game, but is never really recognized unless they do something special. On another team being an Yzerman type guy may get you noticed, but in Detroit it is expected of you!

What do you mean home ice is overrated, hasn't Detroit won every playoff series they had home ice advan....... OH yeah that's right, oops!!!

Well at least he didn't freak out due to a trade not happening, and give up on a team that was and still is in 1st in the league, right?

After the losing streak, I started to think this as well. I think it depends on what they can do with Stuart. If they sign Stuart I think Cheli's tenure in the winged wheel may be over. However, if they can't sign Stuart I see them signing Cheli as it looks like the Wings and Lilja may not come to terms. LFD250, Moving Lebda would have nothing to do with Cap hit or salary he makes $650k next year and $850k the next, small potatos in the nhl. Especially for a solid skating puck moving defenseman. I am not saying some team will jump on him and make him their #1, obviously he is a 5-6. But their are a lot of teams that have a hard time getting the puck out of their own zone that he could help for 10-15 minutes a night.

He earned that EN goal last night, the last two Det En goals I saw were Pavel's poke check and now this one that Franzen had. This team is very deep with defensive forwards, Especially with Dan signing long term. I would like to see a Cleary Flip Franzen line when DZH are together.

Didn't bother reading the whole thread, my only thoughts on this, is GREAT FOR DETROIT, and GREAT FOR DAN!!!! This will be a good deal, especially if he builds chemistry with Dats and/or Flip. This will help the PK for years to come.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AqPC...o&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=Ap0L...o&type=lgns New power rankings and a blurb about how teams have adjust to deadline deals. 2. Detroit Red Wings (45-18-6, Previous: 4) – The Wings are 3-1-1 since making the minor move to pick up Brad Stuart for depth on defense. The biggest boost Detroit has received since the deadline is the return to health of several blue liners – namely Nicklas Lidstrom – with more expected back soon.

Pardon my ignorance, but what did Blake come back from? Cancer? Well he never left, he is ill with it, but not sure that would get him the Masterson, besides didn't it happen this year? Stats? I think Ozzie had a better rebound year than him?

UH, so Uh you uh how about those mets, huh BYE!!!!!! MY BAD!!

The movie slapshot!! It is a quote!!

Cheli does not like the way Babs is handling him this year. He wants to play every game, Babs wants to sit him on b2b's. He wants to play now, Babs wants to save him for the playoffs. Cheli will be happier in the playoffs!