Opie

Listen, I love the idea, and I would love to see Lids take home the Hart, but seriously if Ovechkin wins the Southleast (it will be done mostly by him and Kolzig) or even if they make the playoffs he is hands down the winner. That team has nothing. If you are asking me who I would start my team with it is Lids, but who is more valuable to their team right now than AO. You take away AO and put Lids on that team and you have a team that has a lot more losses than they do now and a d-man who is probably a -. I know that saying Lids could be a minus in any situation is blasphemy but honestly that team sucks. Now you take away Lids and add AO, the wings status in the league doesn't change too much because of the other talent on the team. But a forward line with AO and Dats, hell you could put me out there and that line is still the best in Hockey!!! Plus the voters more often than not see the Norris as Defense MVP, Vezina as Goalie MVP and therefore that leaves the Hart for forwards. Not that I agree but that is how I think they see it!

Very good points, but the thing that I was thinking about was not so much the people who say "the wings should get tougher, or player x" as much as the people who say the wings NEED this, or Player X sucks, or I wish this team was like the flyers. Well in that case if you like the flyers play so much go root for them, because if you expect the wings to play that way you haven't been a fan of theirs for very long. (Not you, you in general). I think the OP was more referring to the lunatic fringe, which exists on both ends. People who blindly follow what the wings are doing, and those that have a "no matter what they do it is not enough'. This board has been filled with the latter lately, people who want to see the Wings lead the league in fighting minutes as well as goals for and goals against, won't be happy until a red wing is tops is all statistical categories. Which will never happen!

unless he can get hossa to accept 7 mil for 5 years. Hossa has said winning is his priority now. But other athletes have said the same and took big money with a non contender.

To the OP Spot on my man (or woman)!!!!! But you do realize those people that do whine or were whining or are whining are going to now call you a whiner and tell you that they can post whatever they want. Some will even tell you they don't care about winning long term they just want a cup this year, until next year starts and then they will ***** and moan about the team sucking and looking back Holland made a mistake trading so and so for player x. Some will tell you that Pavel doesn't hit enough and they should trade him, some will say Z's back will forever be a problem trade him. People will call for Flip's head, Huds too. The only players who seem immune to this LGW thrashing are Homer, Cleary, Downey, Draper, Lids(well this one is obvious) and Maltby for some reason. Lessons I have learned from my nearly 10 years on LGW: 1)This team will always need grit, no matter who they pick up they will not be gritty enough. 2) People will always want old wings back, and for some reason the worse they have done away from Detroit the more people want them back to "Revive their career". 3) The Goaltending will NEVER be good enough. 4)Threads will be repeated, even if there are three threads about one topic on the front page, it will be repeated. 5)If a poster dislikes a player for whatever reason, it is the same reason everyone else should hate them. 6)There will always be a LGW whipping boy. Trust me this team could lose the 1st game of the year and then go 81-0, and there will be some one who "sucks and is lazy©", Can't pass, Can't shoot, shoots too much, doesn't shoot enough, etc. Some people there is no pleasing

True but then what was meant by when in all honesty no one knows what he can do to help or hurt a team.

He is trying to build team that will be strong for years to come, otherwise known as his legacy. If he can build a dynasty (bad word choice) in the salary cap era and win two or three championships in 7-10 years within the salary cap he and this org will be forever remember in NHL lore. Also, maybe just maybe, the I's have told him, we want a winner long term. Who knows but like others have said I would rather root for a winner long term than root for a team like the B's that always seems to screw it up some how, or like the Thrash that were having a fire sale. Yeah I want to win a cup, but at least I can look at my bro -in law (leafs fan) and say I root for a winning team not a team that just can't get it right.

Yeah but Toby what American national* player should take his spot. The US is not terribly deep at the Blue line, and if he plays a roll similar to the one he plays in Det, 5-6 d-man, he won't be a problem at all. Hell he is playing against the best in the world every game and is doing a lot better than many American national* D-men. *I say national because I am not sure who has Dual citizenship like Hullie and can play for the USA.

How does Forsberg have any points?

I may be way off base with this one, but I think if Cheli isn't playing in DET for these last 100 years he is done hockey. In another system that isn't so focussed on puck possession I think his body wears down. If he were in Philly for example he would be expected to be laying out hits and playing physical. After all he is no lids (don't take that as an insult to Cheli.) and they do not play a very puck possession style. So in Det, Col, Ott, Cheli plays until he is 65 because he is able to play a different style, where as in Chi, Phi, Edm, and others he plays until 45!

Thanks for the help Eva, I think you were helping. My point in all of that was that if you look at a trade at face value it may not makes sense. For instance the Run and Gun Suns getting a big slow center that hasn't played in weeks, and give up a great power forward and a very fast but turn over proned PG. But when you look at the finer details you would find out that Shaq and Riley were not getting along recently, the Suns needed to combat the Gasol move, Marion was not going to be easy for them to keep happy after months and months of trade talks involving his name. I think a combo of D-wade and Marion will be great next year. All they need is a serviceable big man. But back to Hockey, it is hard to say why any GM makes any trade. It is very rare that trades work out for both sides in the long run. Short term they may work out but after the season is over generally one team got the short end. Either in a Tkachuk type thing where the rental leaves you to go back to where you just sent players. Or a Bert manner where some one gets hurt. Even the Penner deal, after this year he looks over paid, and it will look even worse if ANA gets a Flip-Huds type player with that pick (by fans) nevermind if they get the next Crosby or Ovechkin with that pick. But either way, there is a lot more that goes into these deals then we as fans even consider. But I would still love Camma on the wings!

Every time a bell rings a LGW thread turns into a Federov Thread (Horrible Joke!!)

1) Someone else brought up his name, I was responding to that. 2) He already went to arbitration with them once, and got less than he wanted. 3) They suck, and if they can get a couple of young prospects to go along or a couple of young roster players it would be better than one young player on a team loaded with ok talent. 4) Why would the Pheonix suns trade Marion for Shaq, why would the Twins trade Santana for 4 prospects, why would the Thrash trade Hossa, why would Florida trade Jokinen, Why would Holland go out and get Bert? If you are asking me to apply logic to the trades that happen or the things that GM in pro sports do I can not.

Looks like your puke icon got to this hat:

He at leest this thrad isn't aboot a gool-ee controvirsay so it is differant in that ass pecked!

3.1 this year and 3.6 next (also the year before Z's new contract!) nothing too steep with that. Stuart is a UFA at seasons end so that doesn't matter. Plus when you take away the salaries that will go the other way I see no reason why Camma's contract is that big of a deal.

NO ONE and I do mean NO ONE in the league expects to get LIDS!!!!!!!!!!! so I have to assume you were being sarcastic.

True but it has happened in the past, and with more teams than just Boston. You mean to tell me that no team in the recent years (salary cap) has made dumb trades? Seriously? Thrashers trades of this past off season comes to mind!

Quincey, Meech, Lebda are all expandable and I think will be on another team if not at the end of this year than definitely at the end of next. Kindl and Ericsson seem to be the D-men that are destined to stay for a while. As it is (with a healthy Kronwall) there is only room for one of these 5 D-men at a time. Meech has shown he is servicable and would probably be the difference between a trade happening and not happening. Not the cornerstone but lets say Det offers Sammy, Huds, Lebda, picks for Stuart and Cammer, LA may comes back and say we need something more. That is were a Meech or Quincey (possibly both) could make or break the deal. Odds are though the grouping I offered up would make LA pee their pants laughing. I was just trying to make an example. Better example: Sammy, Flip, Lilja for Hossa, Atl wants something a little more throw in Quincey.

Yeah everyonce in a while I make sense, it is like playing Russian Roulette, most of my ideas are empty and void of meaning and then about 1 out of every 6 BANG!!!!

Wait wasn't the only reason Montoya started over Howard at the World Cup because Howard tweaked his knee stepping on a puck in shoot around at practice? As far as I know Howard has always been higher ranked than Montoya as a prospect?

If the wings had that same approach with Dats he would be long gone by now. Babs was telling him to shoot more last year and the year before. I agree he needs to shoot more, he and Huds have things to work on no doubt, but they are young and need time to develop. I thought it wasn't until Dats second season that he and Z played with Hullie. I thought the year of the cup it was Hullie spent a lot of time with Shanny and Feds, but that is 6 years ago and a lot of bingers later so my memory could be wrong!!!

Lets compare to Boston: I sat 5th row of the ice, in the corner, on the goaline. I was literally about 30 feet from Z when he scored in the second. $100 after ticketbastard charge. I would have to assume that those would be higher priced tickets but not as expensive as center ice seats.

Would it make sense to go Flip Dats Prospal Homer Z huds or some version of that as opposed to Huds Flip Prospal

Very valid points Dano, and I am not saying this trade will happen, but some "experts" on here seem to think that the only way to get a guy of that caliber is to sell the farm or trade big name for big name. My point was that trades like these can happen! Oh and not too mention they are atop the south least, uh sorry South East!

I am not sure why I bring this up so much because no one seems to remember it, but here I go again for the 80th time. The year Joe Thornton won the Art Ross (2006) he was traded from Boston for: Brad Stuart Wayne Primeau Marco Sturm Hossa is not winning the Art Ross this year, and in my opinion Lilja < Stuart (While I think Lils is a slightly better defensive defenseman, he doesn't bring the physical and on the edge play) Flip = Primeau (Flip has more potential though) Sammy = Sturm (neither is much of a top scoring threat but hold their own with 2nd line minutes) The Bruins for some unknown reason wanted to get rid of Thornton who was probably the games best player that year. And is still one of the top 5 in the league. Hossa is not at the level Thornton was that year or is still at, so to say that Hossa could be landed for Sammy, Flip, and Lilja is not that far fetched if you use past history as a reference point. Do I think it will happen, more than likely not, but for any of us to sit here and say that for a fact the Thrash are looking for more than the wings want, or that a player of his magnitude would demand top shelf talent in return (Heatley Hossa trade as an example) is all speculation and guess work in white coats.