Opie

He retired from Hockey when he realized he could make more money in the WWF and thus became

Do you mean Cleary could resign, ala Tkachuk, or they could sign Hossa. Sorry haven't had coffee yet.

To me this would be a huge mistake but the team (GM, coach, and Cam Neely VP of some stupid s***) have stated that if a move is made, Kessel will be part of it. I think it is because he is attractive to a lot of other teams and they have so much money tied up in Sturm, Savard, Bergeroen, Chara, and Murray for the next 2 years that they need to find a way to get more (as in quantity not quality) skilled players and he is definitely going to get them something in return. He has a hard time finishing at the net, right now, he gets there, he has nice moves, but he has a hard time finishing what he set up. A lot of his assists are rebounds. But he has a ton of upside and is dirt cheap for next year (850) then he is RFA.

Ok so I did a little research on this board and since the departure of Lang the following people have become the LGW.com whipping boy: Grigs: Training camp (deservedly so) Flip: Preseason (undeserved) Huds: Preseason-start of season up until 11/2007 ("too small", "can't hit", "trade him", "Bench him for DRAKE, even with a cage he provides more than Huds" That one is from needmoregrit, "Ellis, and Downey play great togather. I think they need to send hudler down. he is to small. he gets creamed every time he comes close to the puck." that one is from savaking72) Sammy: All season and last season (Role player doing his job, undeserved "Can't pass", "can't use his teammates") Lilja: Training camp -present ("He sucks", "turn over machine", "5-4 every time he is on the ice" (<--my personal favorite)) Kronwall: after an injury, start of season ("injury prone", "Overpaid", "Underachiever", "Trade for Souray", and my personal favorite: "We should trade him and move on to some new talent. Lebda is a much better defenseman that Kronwall!") Dats: Start of the season ("doesn't shoot enough", "can't score", "not a leader", "Trade him for Shane Doan") Babs: start of the season ("z is taking away from Dats", "why isn't x player playing") Edit: Ralf: Mid Season ("Turn over machine", "overrated", "a defensive liability") Lebda: ("Waste of Space", KPWings this is my favorite I love this one thanks for the laugh--> "He's basically a smaller, less versatile version of Dandenault") Holland: always ("Why can't Detroit have a guy like x", "overrated", "Why can't we have a team like PHILLY", "Lang trade revisisted" For Mike Green at that, "should have paid Markov", "Can't believe he let Big Bert go") Kopecky: Mid Season ("Slow and Fat", "Doesn't use his body") Dom: All Season ("washed up", "can't hack it anymore", "needs to retire") Ozzie: All Season ("He is no Dom", "career backup" (that one was mine, oops), "Lucky") Drake: start of season ("There is absolutely no need for him in the line up" due to Downey, "Too Old", "does Nothing") All of these players (one coach) sucked and were detrimental to the team (according to this place) at some point in time this season, and trading them was brought up (well you can't trade Babs, but you get the point). YET: With all of these bums on this team, it is the best team in the league by far. And don't give me that BS of yeah well the regular season means nothing it is all about the post season, these threads have nothing to do with the post season otherwise people would have brought up what these players have done in the playoffs, the only one that ever is, is Lilja's giveaway, which most of you forget that if that goal is not scored he is the hero of that game, not saying it makes his giveaway ok, but it shows he is a little more talented than some of you think. I wish there was a way for teams to give fans like these a legit chance to make these moves so they could see that they actually know nothing about the game when compared to Babs, Holland, Nill, Andersson, you know the Red Wings Brain trust that has this team as the most dominant team in the NHL over the past 16 years.

Well that is the tricky part and where a good GM makes his money. ATL for example they pretty much are 98.5 % sure Hossa is not coming back, that is an easy one. You trade Hossa get 5 prospects (MLB reference) and your job as a GM is pretty easy in this situation. The easiest situation would be a Lids situation, you know he is one of the best, you know he wants to stay, and you know the money it will take to keep him here. Cut and Dry simple as writing it down on paper. Then there is this situation, where the team is not sure they can afford him (at current cap level), the GM has to have a crystal ball. In this situation I think Holland (I hope) realizes that having Cleary for the playoffs, as he has shown, is way better than trading him just to keep from losing him. However if he can be thrown in on a deal too good to be true, Hossa for example (I know impossible), you have to throw him in the deal.

Awesome, why is it that know one has ever thought of a thread like this before. /sarcasm! Rolston (almost impossible) Kessel (Boston has said if they make a move he will be a part of it) Staios Kubina (didn't really think about him until Eva posted it, didn't realize he was trade able).

I am not sure why, but Boston wants to move Kessel if they are going to be movers.

Oh I understand that, I never purposely grouped you in with the Blake is our Savior group (exaggeration), you and I just started discussing the issue. I bolded the most important part of your post!!! All of this is perceived risk reward, I will not berate Holland's moves, I may think they were not the best, but I also don't have the insight as to what is really going on. I may question them, like the Bert move, but hindsight is 20/20. BTW what do you think of the Kessel/Ward deal I purposed to Playstation like or do you think it would work!

I love how there are threads with people bitching about Downie, Boulerice or even Clarke back in the day and how thuggish they are, but yet the classy wings fans say "Break some one's ankle!!!!!"

Do you think everytime he scored the folks at the Joe could get some one to do the Church Lady's "SAY TEN" even though that is not his name!!

By argument I meant as in the logic, discussion argument, not screaming arguing argument, sorry if I mislead you. I also never said the wings shouldn't go out and get depth in case, I actually said I hoped they would get a 4-6 D man, Blake while he would be 3-4 on this team is not a 4-6 dman he is 1-2 on a mediocre to good team, great team he is a 3-4. He is old and hurt. My argument was that Blake is not who they should go after. Who do I think they would be better served to go after: Staois, 2 years left, relatively cheap, and if he costs a prospect and Lebda, Quiney, or Meech then fine, but more than that and I would pass. So that is doubtful. As much as it pains me to say this because about 2 weeks ago I think I had a discussion with NFM (think it was you) about not wanting this guy, but this is why I changed my mind: Aaron Ward, the B's are struggling at best and it looks like Bergereon is not coming back this year, the Org has said that if they make a move Phil Kessel will be a part of that move. If the wings can swing a deal that sends Sammy, Lilja(lebda either or), Quincey (or Meech) prospect and land Kessel (850 next year and then RFA) and Ward (UFA end of year). The bruins have stated they cannot play with the big boys yet in deals (Chara, Savard, Bergeroen, Sturm, and Murray are eating up a lot of salary) so I have to assume that means they will not be looking for high end players in return. If (probably will ) they want Flip I would pass, I would have to give it serious thought if they wanted huds. See this is why I don't usually do Trade Scenarios, I either feel like they are Playstation trades or that they are just an even swap and why would either team do it. Ask Atlanta how there Deadline deals with rental players worked out last year. Blake will cost the wings more than they get, the only way he doesn't is if they win the cup. Because in any other scenario he goes back to LA, to meet up with whomever the wings sent for him, and the wings are left with nothing, that is unless he brings them the cup. As of now the wings are the favorites to win the cup, does Blake put them that much further ahead of where they are now, IMO not really. Is he a huge help if the team has an injury problem sure, but that is a high risk little reward trade. Granted the reward could be the cup, but an 8 seed has the same chance as the Wings at the cup, 1 in 8! BTW, please don't think that I am all wound up and arguing with you guys, this is a good discussion, if my posts come across short or like I am yelling, I apologize I am at work and trying to get these in while no one knows I am not working he he!!

Sorry the ONE should have Been TWO, But then again if you read the posts you would have been able to realize that I made a mistake there. It happens to me time and time again, I get focused on who I am talking with and skip over some of the fluff (or what appears to be) in between. And I miss certain things. But seriously if you want to continue to discuss this please read the thread, don't just read mine to argue with me because I have a different opinion. (You will notice I admitted my mistakes 2x, I make them I am human. At least admit you haven't read the whole thread, go back read it, and then lets talk some more!

Until you read the thread I am done talking to you, throughout the whole thread the scenario has been brought up that he would be needed in case ONE OF THE TOP 4 D-MEN ON THIS TEAM GO DOWN!! I would have to assume that Lids, Ralf, Kronwall, and Cheli are the top 4 correct? Therefore, follow closely, I stated that if Lids goes down this team is done, if Ralf and Kron go down this team has an outside shot at the cup, if Ralf and Cheli go down this team has an outside shot at the cup, if Kron and Cheli go down this team has a slightly better than outside chance at winning the cup. Another poster said he would be out no more than 5 more weeks, therefore in direct response to him I said, that is a better part of 2 months pushing it to early march at the best. Man read the threads, I know I am long winded and boring and I am no where near as funny as I think, but dude, I can not be held responsible for my posts making sense to you when you haven't read the ones that I am responding to! As much as I am assuming the worst you are assuming the best.

NFM, I agree the odds of Rolston are not good, that was my preference hence why I didn't throw out a trade, with MIN thick in the playoff hunt there is no way he is leaving before the summer. A 4-6 d-man for depth can be had for draft picks and a prospect. And I am not suggesting that getting a 4-6 will save this team if 2 of the top 4 go down. I admit that if 2 of the top 4 go down the likelihood of the wings winning the cup is very, very slight. The top 6 forward is what is going to be hard to get without giving up too much, I would be all for packaging Sammy, Quincey or Meech, and even a pick to get a rental player (not sure if that would be enough for Rolston even if they were out of the hunt, but maybe because he is a UFA). Now I am not saying I wouldn't love Ollie Jokinen on this team, or Hossa, or Phanuef, what I am saying is that Blake as of TODAY is injured and not a good option, IMO. Edit: switched thoughts midstream: I would love to have those guys on this team but the odds and the logistics of it happening are not very good, and the situation Blake is in is not very good. I made this same argument last year with Bert, an injured commodity is not a good trade, people argued with me, and look what happened.. What will probably happen, the wings will get a 7-9 forward and a # 6 dman, will that help if 2 of the top 4 go down no. But you can not manage or run or coach a team based on injuries that could happen, same thing with trying to play not to get hurt. You have to do your best to put out the best team, and if Lids goes down, you cannot replace him. It is just that simple, there is no other player in the world that replaces what he brings in the regular season, let alone what he does in the post season. You are reading my posts with an argument already in hand, I never said a depth defenseman wouldn't screw things up. What I said hurt Dom, was that he lost his #2 and #3 d-men, again I conceded that if that happens again the odds of the wings winning the cup are slim to none and none is the favorite right now!

The point is he is also a downgrade from Schnieds, and if one of the two Ralf or Lids (as has been discussed ad nauseam around here) goes down injured, seeing as they are definitely in the top 4 d on this team, having Blake back there would lead to the same problem as last year. The only difference is that the weaker person who is or is not 100% at that time is still not as good as what you lost, the power play will struggle. Blake in the late 90's dude, we are in the late 2000's, you are talking a decade and a broken ankle later! Knowing what he is doing in a puck possession system is different than being able to walk on to the top pp unit after never having played with them and making a seamless transition to replace either Ralf or Lids!!! I never said he didn't or wouldn't fit the system, but he hasn't played it in at least 5 years, he will be out until early March at best, then you give him a month to get used to this team's style, new teammates, new coach, yet he is just going to ease on in and replace and injured Ralf. I used Ralf there and not Lids because in my mind no lids = no cup! Plus you have no idea how he will rebound from Ankle surgery, wasn't Forsberg's first one just basic ankle surgery. So to assume that he will step right in like he hasn't missed a beat after being out for the better part of two months is taking a very big risk!!

I was at the game (and I am a upset pats fan but at the pats not the Giants (whose D was incredible) ), but a lot of Red Sox and Pats fans are forgetting what it was like when the teams absolutely sucked! Which is something I am starting to feel about some Wings fans as well. But as I was leaving me and my friend had our wing's jerseys on, and a guy with a B's jersey on his way out uttered that oh so classic phrase: So my friend and I plus a couple of random wings fans started chanting scoreboard as we were walking out the back door just a head of him, the whole way down the winding back stairs. Man it was priceless!!!

Sorry then the part of my post that was directed towards you is completely.. well ... stupid now. I confused you with others obviously sorry about that! Only sidelined for 5 more weeks that makes it hard to really want him, especially when there are really only 8 weeks left in the season. Yet it is more sensible to assume that he will be fine after sitting out 6-8 weeks, but will be in tip top shape come playoff time? HUH? I agree Sammy is not the best PP point man on the team or in the game, that is why he is option #4, if they had a more viable option I assume Babs would use it. Saying that I hope said defenceman would be able to replace him as well. But if not I can live with him back there, I mean it is not like this is his first rodeo, he has done it for the past couple of years.

Rick Zombo I guess I am missing this cover up for an injury that could happen thing. Because your post is the one to me that doesn't make much sense it seems like you are telling me the wings should trade for a depth defenceman in case of injury but that they should trade for a currently injured and not playing D-man? How is that anywhere near sensible or logical? I agree the PP is what kept the Wings from beating the Ducks, but if the QB from the top PP line goes down this year how is that any different than last year. Last year players were bumped up from either the second PP unit or were brought on to the PP. If Ralf goes down how is that any different, do you honestly think that Blake will seamlessly transition to the style the Wings play? Now if you were saying he could replace Sammy or Lilja on the pp point, than yes he is an upgrade has a booming shot and could make a substantial difference, but he is a downgrade from Ralf, Lids, and even Schnieder. Which would bring us back to last year's situation, correct?

NFM, you are telling me that if Nick and Kronner go down, Blake without one of Lilja or Lebda (one of them will probably go to LA) but with Meech, Quincey, Cheli, Lilja or Lebda, and Rafalski that the wings win the cup. Or an even worse case scenario, the kings ask for Flip or Huds in return, now the wings hand is forced into signing a top 6 forward, which will cost them prospects or one of the D-men. Which puts the wings back in the same scenario that if Lids or two of the other top 4 go down, they are again screwed, especially if this turns out to be a more severe ankle injury than what is being let on. Remember it is known that they are shopping this guy and that there are suitors out there, if his ankle is going to be a problem all year why would the Kings say a damn word about it. It may be playable but in a lot of pain. It could turn into a nagging injury, or lets say arthritis sets into the ankle (happen to my knee and I am a lot younger than Blake), now it hurts every time he pushes off. An injured asset is not something the Wings should chase. Sorry to tell you this, but if this team loses 2 of its top 4 (especially if one of them is Lids) it will not win the cup unless the offense can score 3-4 ES goals a game, and then they would need Dom or Osgood to play absolutely out of their minds. Mainly for the same reason as last year, the loss of Two pp defencemen will destroy the pp, thus the team will go 0-for on the PP and on 5-3 like last year. Yes Blake can QB a pp, but not nearly as well as Lids and Ralf, he is older than he was when he was traded to COL. He is not the same player he was two years ago even. Do you ever wonder why Dom just didn't look sharp in the ANA series last year, maybe because 2 of his main d-man were down with injuries and he was very accustomed to playing behind them. One of them happened at the end of a series (Shnieds), then you tell him, hey you have two days of practice to get acquainted with completely new guys. Oh and by the way our O is gonna suck because we have Kopecky, Bert, Calder getting minutes but they haven't played with this team for more than a couple of months, and even then Kopecky and Bert only played a couple of weeks with the big club (Games not practices) just before the end of the season. major injuries (top 3 forwards, top 3 D) would dismantle any team, then you add in the factor that a 7 game series is a toll on the players and really anybody could win the series. I am not saying that Blake wouldn't make the odds of a miracle happening, but if 2 of the top 4 go down, it will take a miracle to win the cup. My recommendation is get a top 6 winger (my choice Rolston) and try to find a #4-6 d-man for depth. Blake is not a depth acquisition, a top 3 d-Man is not depth that is rearranging your line up and bringing in a big name.

What if that play happens 2 feet in front of the net instead of between the dots. Last second on the shot Dom slides across the crease to make the save, pushing off of the post he makes the save and slides through Gaborik. Is that not the same save as if it happened between the dots. Or is it because he was that far out that he is no longer(or shouldn't) allowed use his body to make the save. He is a goalie not a forward and even forwards lay down in front of shots. They both just happened to be moving very fast opposite directions so as Dom went down he slid forward (as opposed to laying down) and Gaborik was going so fast that as he attempted to get up over Dom he didn't have the clearance room to get over him. There is no rule in the NHL that says a goalie, or player for that matter, cannot attempt to get the puck by sliding into it and then follow through to the body. Now had he missed the puck entirely and just slid through Gaborik's legs then yes there is a penalty. *Oh and BTW a slide tackle happens feet first!

3) have your own guys injuring each other. Say what you want about fighting and people not getting hurt but I saw Joe T get his jaw broken by big E, granted they were on separate teams, but a bad fall, a misstep and one of them has a tore up knee, a smashed face, or something. The last thing a struggling team needs is to have a main cog in their wheel taken out by their teammate. By the way, where the Hell is shanny in the mess known as NYR!!! 17 15 32 in 51 games played, the team desperately lacks leadership (Jagr has never been a good leader) there is in fighting they are struggling to win games and shanny is sort of lost this season.

I have to say I am happy he is not going to be in the winged wheel because I don't really believe he is healthy, having said that, I would have loved to have a 100% healthy Forsberg on this team!!

Thank you so much, that was the same one from youtube I was trying to embed, and the link is the same one I used but my post kept coming up with a blank screen! I must have done something stupid!!

Best Celebration ever: Damn it I cannot get the Teemu shooting his gloves vid to embed!!!

Double post oops