Opie

Actually his stats put him close to the HOF if he can get 400 wins keep his sv% above 900, and lower his GAA those numbers all make this conversation legit. They are all IF's that is why I said not yet. He is not HOF yet, but if he reaches certain milestones he will be considered a contender for HOF. But I mean it is not like Cam Neely made the Hall with Supbar numbers. OH nevermind!!! I also disagree with your Richter comment in 97-98 his record was 21-31 2.66 .908 0 SO. So I would think Ozzie was better that year, but that is just my opinion, but I am just a biased wings fan, I guess.

I grew up watching Tor games with my Pepere (grandfather) he was a leafs fan, I liked watching Stevie Y and started rooting for him and his team. Where I grew up in Maine, we didn't have cable until High School (1993 I know) so I was unable to watch Bruins. My Pepere hated the Bruins and wouldn't watch them (He lived in a town that had cable) so I would go to his place to watch most of the leafs V wings games with my cousin. They rooted for the Leafs and I rooted for the wings. BTW I didn't hate Dave Lewis but I sure as hell didn't exactly like him. But like I said before you never want to be the guy following the legend, you want to be the guy following the guy following the legend!

I would say give it about 7 months ( got to say up until Matt told me the other day I thought you could start negotiations the january leading up to your final year, Jan Jul what is a few letters)!

The more important question (as opposed to What does Drake offer that Mac Can't) seeing as Drake is already on the team and is shown not to be a detriment, what can Mac offer that Drake is already doing. If the answer is nothing, than there is no reason to bring Mac on board.

Whoa my man, I actually posted what I thought to be valid reasons as to why he is a not yet. A. He is seen as a journey man and regardless if that matters to you or not, appearance means a lot to the voters. B. He is 45 wins away from 400, and in the next three years he could(more than likely will) surpass that, and if he does he is as close to a lock as he can get. So lets compare his stats to a sure fire first ballot hall of famer: Martin Broduer (fair comparison Broduer has one more year of experience) Games Played MB 929 CO 645 Wins MB 517 CO 355 Loses MB 276 CO 188 GAA MB 2.20 CO 2.42 SV% MB .913 CO .908 GA MB 2011 CO 1493 SO MB 96 CO 45 Notice there really is no comparing the two, Broduer is head and shoulder's above Ozzie, therefore Ozzie as of yet is not a sure fire HOF-er. Why? Because Broduer has reached certain milestones that guarantee him an HOF acceptance on his first try. Ozzie has yet to reach those milestones but he certainly could in the next few years, hence not yet!

Do any of you think that it would have mattered if he played his whole career in Detroit. I am not saying add the cup Hasek won to his resume, lets say all of the stats are the same, now he is seen as Detroit's #1 goalie instead of a seasoned Journey man. Does that change anything or is it what it is?!

I hate to be the guy who points his fingers at officials, but officiating has been horribly inconsistent since the lock out and rule changes. Obstruction to one ref is nothing to another. This will turn into an ugly problem if the league doesn't make the officiating more consistent not better, just consistent.

It isn't that easy, you can't just say, Nick has an upper body and will be a scratch tonight, bring some one up. Nick would become a scratch and one of the healthy scratches would have to step in. Or Nick would have to go on IR to free up a roster spot. The 23 man roster includes scratches. The only way to get around that is if a guy is on IR or put through waivers. And I guarantee Cheli. Lids, Ralf, Lilja, Kronwall will not clear waivers!! I believe, some one correct me if I am wrong!?!

I said not yet and here is why: The voters (not me) will credit his success with the wings teams in front of him, if he is to be a hof-er he will need to lead the wings to another cup. Not by his play but he will need to be in net for the majority of the games. If the team rotates the tandem through the playoffs, it will not help Ozzie's cause, but will not hinder Hasek. Unfortunately the only way I see it happening is if the wing's win it next year when it is Ozzie's team with Howard taking 20-30 games.

Some how in my confusion I have not represented my thoughts well, I think Min is a great area for hockey and would not remove the wild. However, Leipold said hockey in Nashville could not survive in small market city. I am not trying to dog on Min, I am trying to figure out how Min is really that much different than Nashville, and to tell you the truth I know why, and that is fan base. Min is a hockey area, people love it. But Leipold's argument in Nashville was that fan support wasn't the issue it was city size. I am not arguing a team being in any city in this thread, I am trying to figure out why Leipold thinks this will be any different. If hockey in Min suffers in the next 2-5 years, you can put the blame squarely on two men's shoulders. He has bought into a team on the verge of winning (not the cup but being a serious playoff contender) with a great fan base. IF he turns that into a pumpkin come midnight, then Bettman deserves to be fired over this and this alone, let alone all the other bone headed s*** he has done. Sorry if you thought I was insulting Min, or dogging the team or city, I was just trying to figure out Leipold's logic based on what he said about Nashville.

This is all I need to know, the wings have managed to stay in the top of the league, not division, not conference, LEAGUE by rotating young players in and picking up a veteran guy to fill in where needed for the past 15 years. Included in that are 3 Stanley cups, and right now they are on a pace to set a club best record if not League best. Why on Earth would they change their approach. These aging defense man are premier defenseman, like it or not on any other team Cheli is a 2-3 d-man. He plays the 5-6 role on this team how is hurting to have a guy playing at a very high level, killing penalties, instead of a young unproven talent. You want to play Kindl or Ericsson over Cheli, when you have no idea what they will bring to the table in the NHL. Lilja, was on his way to being the hero of that game, if the pp scores ONE goal on a 5-3 that series shifts momentum and the wings have the series in their favor due to mighty mo. Then everyone is singing the praises of Lilja. Because he is not Lids or Ralf doesn't mean he is awful or he sucks. And to prove it, lets use the rule of 3, people always say something is luck unless you can do it 3x's. So lets use that rule here, you have one example of how he sucked and cost the wings a game (notice I don't say us, I am not a part of the team). So you only need two more, and I am not even asking for playoff suckage, just suckage, hell if you can provide evidence that he cost them a pre season game I will take it. But your opinion of him is he sucks, I think he is not bad, not great, he is a decent 4-6 D-man. What I do know is that he is playing on a team that is doing pretty good this year and he has played quite a few of those games. Ericsson and Kindl on the other hand all we know about them is what they can do against inferior talent. Now we can only find out what they will do in the bigs if they get time there, I understand that argument. However,imo, if you have Cheli (current playing level), Lids, Ralf, (seeing as they are the only aging d) you do not walk away from experience and talent. There is a post, that has a blip from an article, talking about how Cheli stole the puck from Avery in a practice because he saw him turn his hips and knew where he was going and how to take an angle and steal the puck. That is not teachable, you learn that through experience and that Cheli, Lids, Ralf have a ton of that, Kindl, Ericsson, Meech, Quincey do not. If there is no room on this team there is no room on this team. Again, look at how they handled the forward positions after '02. If Holland, Babs and Co. see it fit to bring up a youngster I am sure there is justification, and if not who the hell am I to tell them otherwise, so if they don't see it fit to bring him up so be it. This team has done a fantastic job in the last 15 years of keeping the team competitive every year, without mortgaging the future, I am sure they will continue to do the same. You apparently will never agree with me on that, however, that is you prerogative, you can do what you want to do (the Bobby Brown paraphrase was free of charge ). But in all seriousness, if in two years Cheli walks out and the team is in a pinch at the number 5 spot they will fill that spot. Because unless Ericsson or Kindl come out and have Calder years or absolutely dazzle the pants off of the wings staff they will be 4-6 d-men, the wings could find that if need be, hell they had the money to overpay Markov if they wanted, they didn't see the need and let him go. Some on here still think that is a mistake and they should sign him from Russia. I on the other hand think this team is unreal right now and wouldn't change a thing, Lilja, Sammy, Downey, McCarty, Kindl, etc. included!!

You know there are times when I read people's ideas around here and I wonder if they thought about them before posting. Whether it be trade talks or bringing up prospects, people just don't think about it with logic. Either they don't like a roster player, or they really like a prospect so they want change, but don't think about the ramifications of that change. It is like Phineas Gage, for those of you who don't know who Phineas Gage is, take a general psych class or... He was railroad construction foreman who suffered a traumatic brain injury when a tamping iron accidentally passed through his skull, damaging the frontal lobes of his brain. When your frontal lobe is damaged one of the things that you can't do, or at least Phineas couldn't, is think before you speak, everything he thought he said. Made him a very unpopular person. And yes I go on these tangents in face to face conversation too!!!

According to the sources I found Min St. Paul only has barely over 3.1 and nashville just under 1.5 so it is really 1.5 or twice the population. 2 million is not that much more when you compare it to a Major market cities. 2 million is a lot less than 17 million more (NY, NJ), or 5 million (dallas fort worth) more correct. Yes it is more than Nashville but it is still not a major market. By your logic Riverside San Bernadino (4.02mil) would be a better market than Min. Right? and if that were the case than Seattle would be a perfect location for the Preds, 3.26 mil just slightly above Min st. Paul. Either way my point is this, if he claims it takes a major market to support the NHL why did he go to a small market again. If he wants to own a winner that bad, build one!!

Who do you send down to let him play, without some one on IR there are no more rosters spots.

Yeah min st paul is bigger but not so much bigger that it is now a major market team. And yes F.Michael how in the hell does this guy get a team. I am so perplexed, I think I should go home and forget I ever read this!

I think I see your point now and maybe we are arguing different points, but like the post after yours, the only way those guys take Cheli's spot, is if they earn it in camp and out play him. Regardless of age I want the best team on the ice. And you act like this d is all about to turn 40. Lilja (is not awful you are exaggerating), Kronwall, Lebda. If none of them are top 1-2 d-men the team will go get one. Same with if the prospects don't turn into one. Rookies are not given spots, they earn them by out playing the veteran, nature of the beast. And if that means he has to do it on another team he just wasn't good enough to crack this roster. And if in 4 years the team is short on D men, they will get them. I think they have done a great job with the bottle neck at the forward position they had after 02. The let free agent vets walk only when they knew the young guys could handle their roles. Same thing will happen here, but a rookie isn't just given a roster spot. Unless that forward is AO, Crosby, Kovie, and those guys only got those spots because they are THAT GOOD!! If you have talent you use it, you can't bank your season on hopes and dreams of youngsters because then if they fail you are in an emergency situation. You either have to trade in a hurry to replace them and other GM's will know, or you decide to grow with them and your team will have growing pains. But if you have the veteran talent, you play it until some one comes along and plays better. If Ericsson out plays Cheli next year at training camp that is excellent and give him the spot then. Not because he is young and in a couple of years Cheli will be gone.

That was definitely Lou Siffer material!!! He is the devil you know!

Nevermind read that as 7 per year!! PHEW!!! I thought the league had gone crazy for a minute!!

How can this happen? He sells a team from a small market saying that a small market team cannot make any money in the NHL and then buys another small market team. While there are others out there that have shown interest to buy a team? I am so confused by this, how does he think this team will make money? By his own logic this is an impossible task he is taking on. I mean I know Min has a bigger fan base, but if his reasons that Nashville wouldn't work is the market size, than this shouldn't work either. But on the other hand if it will work because the fans are more hockey based, than why protest the moving of Nashville? I am so lost and confused by this??

That is why I said if he wants to walk so be it. Do you know how many can't miss prospects turn into busts. Do you now how many Lids, there are. For that matter Cheli for his price tag will be the best deal on the market for his skill level, same with Ralf who is making just more than Schneids is, and just more than Campbell turned down!! Let's say at best Ericsson is a 25 year old #5 defenseman, there is no way to replace that? Lids, Ralf, Kronwall will all be around for at least two years, Lilja, Lebda, Kindl should all be ahead of Ericsson, and that is with out Chris Chelios who is a very very good defenseman in this league. Like you said earlier there are guys 2-3 years away, this problem is 2-3 years away. And unlike big body banging d-men Ralf, Lids, Cheli won't break down as much because their bodies didn't have the abuse. So their game will still be mental, it won't be like they will go from a banger to a positional player and have to deal with the transition. All they have to do is keep playing their game at the level they are. Hell lids could have a slide in talent over those two years and still be one of the top d-men in the league. IMHO you can't give up sure fire great defenseman for could be great defenseman, on one hand you have a known, on the other you have an unknown. If you want to compete for a cup year in and year out you have to go with the known. Do you think that if the wings had Shanny still you would fault the wings for letting Huds play in GR instead? I know that is hard because some one would say well then you don't need Sammy and then Huds can play, there are a bunch of what ifs but I think the point is still there.

Similar comparison, the red sox offered Wakefield a lifetime contract worth 4 mil a year, really it is a contract with a crap load of player option years. If he wants more money he can walk whenever he wants, but he cannot come back and ask for the same deal. He won 17 games for them this year, tell me that's not a steal. The wings should tell Cheli, maybe they have idk, you can get 1mil a year contracts each year you play well and stay in shape. He still is as crafty as any one in the game, I know fans of other teams probably can't wait to see him retire, but if he is this good keep him around, you can not replace his experience.

Well he has shown loyalty to them, maybe now they will get him some talent. Draft a highly touted d-man or trade for a young D. They need to build around him, not just use him to put asses in the seats!

I think he will be the logical choice to replace Cheli when he steps out, but I don't care about age, if Cheli, Lids, and Ralf are playing this well you don't let them go just for a potential star or maybe a bust. You keep Ericsson in GR and let him develop, if he is unhappy with that and wants out then so be it. They can sign a defense man that is a UFA, it would not be like they are looking for a 1-2 d-man they would be looking for a 4-6 d-man.

I almost think you will see it like this for a few years in a row Lids Ralf Kronwall Lilja (if they continue to improve they way they are) Cheli Lebda/Kindl I think that will be the group for the next 2 years of lids contract, maybe Kindl for Lebda and trade Lebda, I think Meech and Quincey and Lebda are being groomed for trade bait.

That thought has popped into my head in the recent days, (Not posting) for the most part this board used to rock. Back in the early 00's when this board first started booming ( I caught the tail end of the boom, I wasn't an original LGWer but closer than most that now post here) you could rely on great information and the occasional DRW02 post that was as annoying as these but it was only one of two posters. People supporting other teams were on here in droves, because we all would talk about an upcoming game or series in a respectful tone. Now it has become who can ***** the loudest. I mean seriously people have come on here and complained that the wings aren't dirty or that they don't fight (which I get if you like it, but saying that is why they lose the cup is a bad argument seeing as most enforcers don't play in the post season.) Some on here have even said they wish the wings were more like the flyers, if you like their style of play so much root for them, the wings have not been like that in my memory, even Probie wasn't malicious, he was a bad ass, but he wasn't swinging his stick, or trying to decapitate players. Some times I read this board and wonder why I even bother. And then instinctively the next morning I get to work get coffee and check LGW!! And the logic people give is absurd, you may politely say hey there is another thread on this, and the response you get is well, I am talking about how x player sucks at doing Y that thread is he sucks in general. Or You don't like don't open my thread. But society isn't that different, we as Americans have become accustom to things being our way and getting all that we want not just what we need, so when some one wants to post a thread bitching about pop up ads or ads that make noise and annoy them, but they won't donate money to help the board. Sorry getting off of my soap box now, not that I finished my thought, but this is going nowhere and I have to go for lunch.