Opie

Fixed it, no charge!

I think next year the Job is Ozzie's and J-ho backs him up, then let J-ho take the following year IF he has shown he has the ability. Signing Osgood allows the Wings to test the waters with the Youngster and hopefully let him get used to the NHL and have Ozzie show him what it takes!

I think that the style of Defensive play by the other team impacts this as well. If the defense was overly aggressive and chasing the wings players every where you would see crisp passing and quicker passing. With the D (almost all D's in the league against any team) setting up to cover the slot and giving up the perimeter the wings are forced to pass the puck around the perimeter looking for a guy that slashes through the slot for the pass. I think this is why Babs is asking his players to crash the net and shoot more. Flip and Cleary have specifically said that has helped them dramatically this season. Just my two cents, but I could be wrong.

Quoted myself to save typing!!

I don't think the wings are going to trade for a top 4 defenseman unless some one gets hurt before the trade deadline. IF they trade for a top 4 d- when will he play and who sits to let him play. That is unless you trade Lilja, Lebda, or Kronwall for him, but then that defeats the purpose to trade for depth. I think the wings will stay set on the D side of things, unless they run into a deal to good to pass up. Remember some of the young d-men played great last playoffs especially Meech, I should say for the minutes he was given, if he was out there 20-25 minutes the results may have varied. Even a top 6 forward at this point in time (I can't believe I am about to type this) seems like overkill. The forward lines are starting to come together nicely, there are 5 forwards I see as untouchable in the top 6 Z_D_H, huds, flip. In those 5 you have a very talented young group of guys that could be the corner stone of this franchise for 5-7 years. If you trade away one of those for a rental player it is a way, way greater loss than Mattias for Bert. Some of you have talked (in hindsight which is 20/20) that you would rather still have Mattias instead of the whole thing that went down with Bert. Think about how you would feel if Flip or Huds got traded for a rental player, like Sundin, who then turned around the year after and played center to their wing. That leaves the bottom 6, honestly the only value I see there is Franzen, he has top 6 potential, but is probably better suited to be a 3rd line guy. Sammy has no real trade value himself, he would need to be thrown in with a guy like Franzen, or a top prospect. Draper is untouchable. No one will want Maltby, Drake, Hartigan, or Ellis on their own accord, again they would have to be the throw in for a package deal. However, most of Detroit's top prospects are on the D side of things and this is a D corp that has 2 guys that in a couple of years could leave very, very big shoes to fill. So the higher end D prospects (IE Kindl) should be off limits too. I guess the point to all of this huge rambling is that the only trade I see is one involving Franzen and Sammy or a prospect or pick, for a depth forward, a guy that could fit the role Whitney played when he was in Detroit. But that is a high cost for a player that Franzen could turn into. Not so sure I see the wings making a big splash in the trade market.

Doing it this way if DZH is broken up and the wings are losing in the 3rd, Babs knows he can go back to it and get a good chance of getting a goal or two to pullout a victory!

I just finish posting similar lines in another thread. The only thing I did differently was switch Sammy and Drake, I don't think Sammy is a defensively responsible as Drake is. But the rolling 4 lines, and Z and Homer, I couldn't agree more if I tried!!!!! I think with these combos every line could log at least 10-15 mins a game, and as the team comes down the stretch and into the playoffs rolling four lines is going to be key!

Yet some how some one actually in the NHL found the nerve to sign him and actually give him ice time when he could have been giving it to Hartigan, Kopecky, Ellis, Downey, Drake, jeesh the nerve of some NHL team's front office people. Man next thing you know some one will draft a guy in 7th round and have the balls to play them like a first round choice! Now that the sarcasm is over, I agree with your line combo's whole heartedly, your assessment of Sammy I don't but I think after the last few weeks the lines should be Cleary Dats Flip, Huds Z Homer, Maltby Draper Drake (Sammy isn't good enough d wise to play here), Kopecky Franzen Sammy, give them 8-10 minutes a game and anything they bring you offensively is a bonus. I still have some concern with taking Cleary off of the third line, but with the lead the wings have over the rest of the league they can afford to experiment a little with the third line.

I wouldn't say their record will be tainted, but with the new OT and SO point structure I would have to say that in my eyes the only way to beat the record is to win more games. Point total is thrown out of the window when comparing the two teams due to the point scoring structure being so vastly different. But hey what do I know?!

Man how far this board has come since the days of IKONboard, or whatever the software was around 00 when I first hopped onto this place!! Congrats and thanks to the people who put the work in to make this my favorite work day destination!!! Just don't tell my boss, good thing he isn't a Red Wings Fan!!!

Exactly, great post. This award is so hard to judge, I bet fans of every team think they have a legit Selke contender, because they see their team so often. Because they watch their one defensive guy and look for defense. When people see the Wings and Dats(to a lesser extend Z) people think one thing, offense! Well when they think wings in general they think offense. No one really pays attention to how good they are defensively, other than the fact that the wings have the best D-man in the world. And just like Lids will get credit for Ozzie and Hasek having great years, he will also get credit for helping the forwards play D. But hey if that is the price to pay for having #5 back there, so be it!!!!

Well Done!!!

Here is the first one I found: http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID.../801070372/1053 Funny part of the article:

This year must be the year of the back up goaltender, Osgood, Conklin, Thomas, Ellis, and even Toskala and Bryzgala went from back ups to starters (I know Toskala was before the season started). There are a lot a of backups having career years. And the two of better netminders in the league (GAA, SV %) are Thomas and Ozzie who remind me a lot of each other. Sort of road warrior type guys who in the last 10 years have been on the back burner. But either way good for both of them!

The problem is Lou, that he also has a 20 game suspension in there, another act that could have been suspendable and I can almost guarentee that he is suspended for at least 15 next season. Playing on the edge is one thing, but consistently playing over the edge is another. Bad example I know but bare with me: Chris Simon, used to be an edgy player who would fight, scrap, hit, then he lost his ability to skate and play with the speed of the new NHL. He turned into a suspension machine and a thug. Downey is already that, what makes you think he will change. And I hate to see what happens if this dude gets a high stick, or an elbow from a guy like Thornton or Crosby, even if it is a clean hard hit, this guy will go head hunting afterwards. He is a loose, unsafe, dangerous cannon, and if he were on another team besides this years Flyers I would hold out some hope that the org would change that, but Philly seems to like it. I on the other hand think his actions are uncalled for and giving the league a black eye (Pun inteneded)!

Haven't I seen this thread somewhere before!!!! http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47000 http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47211

Damn Maltby is back, nice!! Those lines make sense, Cleary has shown he deserves the time up there, he has played real hard and produced. But I agree with wingswillwincup Cleary Flip and Dats should have stayed together, not only due to there chemistry but now you have put Z with two guys that he has very little chemistry with. I think he would have faired better with Homer seeing as Cleary has shown he can play with Dats and Z can play with Homer. then again Z can probably play with anyone. This does give the wings 4 lines that can roll in all game long, I like the looks of those lines. Side Note: I kind of feel bad for Franzen he is a center on a team that is so deep in that position, but he could turn this into a great opportunity to use his body, create some scoring chances, that he may not have gotten on a higher line.

Why then did he punch him thumb first directly to the eye, his hand was held thumb up and that is exactly the way he brought it up, he didin't wind up he just threw the hand upward thumb up. If it wasn't intentional to poke him in the eye it sure looked like it, and regardless of hiw intentions if his thumb is up a little and his nail hits him we have Bryan Berard #2. This guy has been bad news since juniors what more do we need to see before the league realizes that playing pro hockey is not a right it is a privilege and his privilege needs to be taken away from him. Fighting and tough play makes this game exiting but that thuggery hurts the image of the game, enough people think it is barbaric as is, this is not going to help the league get more fans.

Ben_USMC I think most of us have a problem with what you said, not because you said it, but because the league has cracked down on revenge and players can no longer defend their teammates with out drastic consequences. If the league were to allow it some one would have jumped him and beat the piss out of him, Much like probie did in the infamous clip where some one jumped Stevie Y, then he beats the crap out of the guy, after pulling him out of the scrum. The problem is that players can not do that without taking about 17 minutes in PIMs. If he gets his, I will be on here as soon as I can to celebrate it, he is horrible for the game.

Timebinder, If you read this and the other twelve Sammy threads you will see that I support trading him or sitting him if there were a viable option to replace him. Instead of just bitching about him what do you suggest the wings do? Even the post I put up in response to Lets go Pavel, I mentioned moving him to the 4th line. Because now Cleary has shown he can play on a top line. My problem with that, as stated two post above yours, is that the third line takes a huge hit. Dan Cleary is playing great hockey next to Draper. Disappearer, So in one sentecne you say the wings are not the rest of the league so Sammy's spot should be a better player, yet the wings are the same as the rest of the league when it comes to the 4th line. Yet most coach will tell you that to be really successful you need to roll four lines, well because the rest of the league can't the wings shouldn't? I am not a hyped up as you would make it. I really only post on here during work so sometimes my post get broken up, or I write them in a hurry. Sorry if I included others responses in my reply to you. And thanks for the advice on where to post and how to use the internet, but my forum is a football forum so talking wings there would be like starting 5 threads about one player or 5 threads about goalie wars or 5 threads about bringing back feds, on here! And if you can tell that the Sammy threads are about Sammy, why can't others and stick to those threads without 5 others just worded differently in the subject.

No I was not here trumpeting his ENG, in fact when he made the pass to Kariya (I think can't remember may have been MacDonald) in the blues loss I was on here saying that he played poorly. He can't even pass, how do you figure that, where on earth do you people come up with this crap? Name me one team in the league that passing is a more important feature of a player. With how important puck possession is to this team do you really think they would continue to play him in those spots if he couldn't pass? I appreciate your opinion but I am going to have to go with Babs, Holland and Co. who, correct me if I am wrong, have found a way to work this horrible player into their line up and post the following: Best Team in the League Best PP in the league Best Statistical D in the League Best Goal Differential in the league Just to name a few And as far as that goal being set up beautifully by Hudler, how many current Red Wings players game day roster or scratches miss that goal. Let me count them for you: For sure miss that goal: Downey Kopecky Ellis Hartigan Maltby More than likely miss that goal: Drake Franzen (he is a good player don't mistake that but he is not a sniper) May miss that goal but have a good chance at scoring it: Sammy Cleary Draper Filppula Homer If they miss it you let out a huge groan thinking it was a for sure goal: Zetterberg (Every shot he takes I think is going in) Hudler (he is the sniper behind Z) Dats (Every shot he takes I think is going in) Oh, also he is a right handed shot, so again how many of those Wing players would be in that spot. I am not saying he is the reincarnation of Hull, or that he in any way shape or form is close to what Z or D or Homer are. But people like yourself go around and complain about him, but offer no reasonable solution to the problem. From the start of this Sammy bashing I have said he is not a top 6 forward, however he plays the role well enough not to disrupt your top line. If Babs is going to Disrupt the first line to keep Cleary and Dats together than fine move the guy to the third or fourth line. But if you are going to say he can't pass, at least have some proof to your argument that isn't as easily disputable as, he is in the NHL, you mean to tell me that some one made it to the NHL without the ability to pass. Or were you exaggerating and he just doesn't pass up to your expectations. Because the two are a lot different, the latter I can not argue, you set your expectations where you want to. The former is being represented as a fact, which oddly enough it isn't! If I am overreacting in defending him when he is on "One" of his "lucky streaks" like last night, what are the rest of you doing complaining one game after a 5+ point streak. And for those of you who Bash him and want him traded what do you honestly think the Wings can get in return? If he is so bad that a bunch of people posting on the internet can figure it out what do you think the rest of the GM's in the league think of him. BTW not trying to change your opinion just the way people post their opinion like it is fact. If you want to say he is your least favorite and you would like to see Lecavalier in his spot, I can't argue I would too, but that is not happening. And Yes odds are when homer comes back that spot will be his, BUT>>> Homer is not back yet, so in the meantime we (fans) wait. And deal with a sub par player in the position knowing no one on the current healthy roster does it better! I agree Sammy should be moved in order to make a space for cleary, but you can not just swap the two out, there are things like handedness to think about.

GMRwings1983, If Ozzie was the starter from the beginning I think you hit the nail right on the head. However what imo gives him a boost is that he was supposed to be the back up, the starter was struggling and then injured, if it is not Ozzie behind Dom, I seriously doubt the results would be the same. And as much as I love Lids, he is not on the ice for every shift (half of the game is about as close as it gets though), so to say that he impacts every save that a goalie makes is a stretch. EDIT: that sounded like I said you wrote that he impacted every save, my point was the D plays great but he still has to make saves. Sidenote: I love the fact that instead of debating how this team sucks and who is to blame, or trashing players, there is a thread talking about all of the good that guys bring to the table. Dats Z Homer Cleary Huds Flip Draper Lids Ralf Mule Osgood Hasek Kronwall Lebda Lots of guys have stepped up and made huge impacts on this team. Are they all in the running for first half MVP, no but that is still a good list of players that are helping out the team big time.

Lets go Pavel, I take no issue with people who post with logical sound reasoning, or at least backing up there argument, but when someone says "Take him off of the point, He sucks", my natural reaction is to say well what do you suggest instead. None of this is personal, it is a discussion board, do you think I go home at night thinking about this place. For instance your point about putting Sammy on the 3rd line in favor of Keeping Dats and Cleary together. I was not in favor of splitting up the third line about a week ago, now I see that Cleary deserves to be on that line, although I am still hesitant. He has shown the work ethic, skill, and attitude that warrant him getting a promotion up the lines. Cleary Dats Flip Huds Z Homer Draper Mule Sammy the rag tag group known as the fourth line. I like those combos but I think the third line took a decent hit by doing that, but as I said above, Cleary has earned the right. Then worse comes to worse you know that you have the ability to fall back on DZH, Huds Flip Sammy, Cleary Draper Mule. But I still think keeping ZDH together is the best way to go. In order to do that you need Sammy's Right Hander on the second line. (Which was not what I thought I would say at the start of the year) The question I wonder about is what happens when Maltby returns?

I think the problem in the past with the two goalie system is that it is usually younger guys who need time to develop a rhythm in net, to get a good streak going. These two are starting to show that they have no problems alternating starts. If Babs plays the two like this the rest of the season (and he should be able to if they keep their lead in the West) and the team doesn't miss a beat why not. I am skeptical of it, but these two seem so focussed it could work. But as some one brought up in the Sundin thread, this is another one of those: If you do it and win you are a genius, if you do it and lose you are an idiot situations!

Please some one tell me how a Mannequin could be the backstop for this team yet to start the season, Hasek was struggling to do it. Last I checked he was more than a mannequin. The reason I picked Ozzie over Lids, is that yes this defense controls a lot of the shots and the goalies don't face a lot of shots. However, when they do face a shot it is usually a pretty decent scoring chance, because the D does so well, as a team. If every shot Osgood face was from 30 feet out, I would not argue Lids as MVP, but Osgood and Hasek as of late have looked very very good!