Opie

1. He is doing a better job as the 6th forward on this team than half of the 6 forwards on other teams in the NHL. I would go get the post that EVA put up depicting this but it is already in a Sammy thread and I don't see a need to duplicate it. I get bother by people who post bashes and insults without supporting their argument or supplying a valid replacement. And until Ryder, Lecavelier or whomever you want is on the team, they are not taking his place. So the team, Babs, Holland must make due with the roster they have, so should you. Who knows the reason they are putting Sammy there, it could be that Z already went to Holland and said if you give me $X I am yours for X Years, and Holland and Babs are using Sammy to fill that role instead of getting a UFA-to be, so they can sign him. None of us know that and until then we should stick with the facts we have, not the "could be's" Or "Would be's". Instead of telling us all what do to with him and not suggesting a replacement, why not say "Joe Schmoe would be better on the pp point than Sammy, because of X, Y, and Z." Because you can't, no one on this current roster has proven themselves to be a PP point other than the three that already do it. Sammy allows the team to keep the top pp unit together. Because he can play the point (on the best pp in the league BTW) on the second unit, thus keeping Ralf and Lids together. 2. I get mad because people post 5 threads on the first two pages bitching about him. I have to maintain a smaller version of a discussion board that has 12 users, that is a lot of work. This board takes a lot of behind the scenes work, and if someone taking the time to research the threads to see that there is already a thread about this takes too much energy or time, than find something else to do, because you are officially internet lazy!! And I have no problem with people complaining about his play, but give an example, say when he does this he sucks. Fine, but don't just ramble on about how much he sucks, and doesn't fit in, and can't pass when those things are all not true and supported as untruths by facts. 3. I suggest you try watching hockey! OR watch the highlights from last night. He had quite the nice goal last night, little PP love from the left dot, [sarcasm oh but that was all set from the pass, anyone could have scored that! [/sarcasm] Right that is how it goes! Just a little thing I like to call a LINK, it provides you a place to click on that takes you places, places you could find on your own, but this makes it quicker. Think of it like taking the train or a plane instead of having to get directions on your own and pay for gas in your car, tolls, the wear and tear on you vehicle, you get the idea. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=det. But in case you didn't want to read it here are some highlights for you: A> 7g 16a 23pts +9 9PIMS 16:00 ATOI 2PPG 5PPA B> 7g 7a 14pts +4 38PIMS 15:56ATOI 0PPG 0PPA C> 8g 2a 10PTS +9 31PIMS 16:31ATOI 4PPG 0PPA Now tell me without looking it up A,B, or C which is Sammy, Franzen, Draper's stats. I know it is an easy one, I should have tried players with similar stats, but the only players with Similar stats are .... WAIT FOR IT... Wait for it.... ahead of him in the stats categories and there are only 7 players 2 d-men and low and behold 5 forwards, oh my god that would mean he is the 6th best forward on this team, who would have thunk it!!! Sammy had a at least 1 Point in all but 3 of the last 10 games, all three of them coming back to back to back. That means he had at least a 6 game streak going into those three games. One of those games the entire team got blanked. I will make a deal with you, after every game I will be in this thread and I will post whether IMO he had a good game or not, IF you do the same, oh but wait there is no factaul evidence I can use to argue your "He is the weakest link, he is lazy, he can't pass, He wastes shots on net!" argument. And you know what gets me the most about that last statement, Babs is telling the team to shot more, and you guys ***** that Sammy is doing what his coach is telling him. And if Sammy is the glaring weakness to you on this team what is the 4th line, a bunch of guys who log a total of 12 minutes a night, provide one maybe two points a night week, are not out there against the top line from the other team, that is usually one of the top 3 lines. Edit fixed it myself

How do you guys think Briere likes this situation. From what I have heard, read, or seen of this guy he is a classy guy, plays the game right and is a stand up player. He gets a big deal, thinks he is going to another contender, and ends up on the team with the biggest bunch of classless A-holes. Plus they are tied for last in their Division, and are barely holding onto the last playoff spot. F*&$ing Flyers!

I said all along that he was the main cog in that wheel, if he comes back that spells trouble and I begin to worry a lot about the ducks. There D is statistically insane, and their O has been dormant. You bring this guy back and he will facilitate that offense, he could single handedly turn this team around. If he does that is your MVP!!!

Is there a possible way to keep all of the Sammy bashing to one thread, it is hard the morning after he has a good night to go around looking for all of you eating crow with so many threads. Oh but that is right, none of you post after he has a good night. Only on nights where he stops a 5+ game point scoring streak and makes a bad pass. Listen, the guy is a role player and doing his job. Some of you in these threads that berate Sammy were the same people dogging on Flip and Huds in the beginning of the season, have patience. He makes 1.2mil and plays very well, I would assume (may be a dangerous assumption) that Babs has more hockey knowledge than any one on this board. His job is directly tied to the success of the team, why on earth would he put some one in a vital position like pp point if he didn't think he could do the job. More interestingly to me is that you guys think some one on the team could do better, yet Babs (remember his job is directly tied to the teams success or failure) doesn't use that person for what reason? This team could win the cup and I guarantee you some or you yahoos (not all of the sammy bashers are yahoos) will be on here bitching that a sweep was too quick and there wasn't enough pims this year, or what ever other reasons one could think of. ENJOY THE FACT THAT THIS TEAM IS KICKING ASS, and please for humanity's sake (exaggeration) stop starting Sammy threads, you may think "hey this is a discussion board I can post, it is my opinion" blah blah, but each one of these takes up space in a DB and unless you want to buy another Hard Drive or storage array for the site, SEARCH THE F*&^ING FORUMS BEFORE POSTING, there are only 5 Sammy threads talking about trading him or how much he is lazy and sucks. This thread is lazy and Sucks!! Fixed it! Michael Ryder, yes because he is doing so much more than Sammy this year, and that definitely answers the issue on the PP point. Plus those trades were situations where the team was almost 100% certain that the player was not coming back the following year, not just trades because SJ called up the B's and said "Hey we will give you these three for Joe Thornton" and the B's said yes! LOGIC It is your friend, use it, get to know it, love it even. Just don't love it too much then it gets all sloppy!! 32-8-3 lovin' it!!!

Hey man I am probably the biggest Fan of J-Ho on these boards, I don't want to trade for another goalie, I want to have him come up as soon as possible, and the sooner he gets up to the NHL the sooner Ozzie can mentor him and help him become a great (Hopefully) NHL goalie. Having said that, Ozzie has played some amazing games (so hasn't Dom lately), games that I don't think Howard has in him yet. That was my point, not to dis Howard!

So how was last nights game for you?? And where are you today. Not trying to pick on timebinder but his post was the first post I read in this thread this AM! Where are the rest of the "Sammy Haters". Don't worry the question is rhetorical I knew none of you would be in this thread today!!! Hey thanks for posting after he did something well. Honestly the guy is not my favorite Red Wing, but he does some things well, he is chipping in and playing well. Is he the best player, no, is he the worst, no. Now before you flip out and say no one is worse than him, think about hockey ability not what they bring to the team, because if one of you thinks Downey, Drake, Kopecky, Ellis, Hartigan, are better than Sammy you are smoking your breakfast and Pancakes are not made for that. He does an adequate to good job with what the team asks him to do!!

Before we get started I am not saying Lids is not vital to this team hear me out first. If Lids were to go down in the first week and Ralf or Meech filled his spot and the team had this record, than I would give the MVP to whomever took Lids spot. Lids is Valuable, but what Osgood did in being able to stop what could have been a very troubled streak. Hasek was already a little slow out of the gate, I think if it is Howard instead of Ozzie we are talking about a barely .500 team. That to me puts Ozzie that one notch above lids, and it is a small notch. I think Dats is a step above Hank, because with Hank and Homer out of the line up, Dats has been able to keep scoring points.

I know MVP honors always go to a big name but I don't think the big names on this team are the most valuable! The big worries most of us had going into the season were secondary scoring and team toughness(do not read that as fighting). This has become a grinding team that gets scoring from multiple almost every night, and that can pass the puck around you all night. Having said that, Hasek started incredibly slow, then got injured. Osgood has stepped it up big time, and if Howard were sitting where Osgood is I have a feeling this team is not in 1st even in its own division. Now I am not an Osgood lover, I actually was not in favor of signing him. But I have to admit right now he has got to be the MVP. 19-2-1

Here I come hook line and sinker! Regardless of what Blake may have said or done, a thumb to the eye is uncalled for and very dangerous. And I don't want to hear your BS about how that was a punch no one throws a punch like that outside of MMA and people who don't know how to throw a punch. If he has any kind of thumbnail we could be talking about another Bryan Berard. I don't care if he wants to fight. Hell for all I care Downie can go on the ice with no helmet, no sticks, and no gloves. IF he is going to fight fair I could give two s***s, but those of you supporting this act are supporting goons, not enforcers or fighters. UK_Redwing, A legend? You do realize it is Steve Downie? Kindergarten punch? Blake's eye was swollen and black and blue almost instantly, that was an attempt to thumb the guy in the eye. Are some of you so fight obsessed that you actually support a guy doing that. Even if it was a legit punch not a thumb to the eye, how tough does it make you to punch some one after they are tied up by the ref. There is no excuse for what he did, it was cheap and it shows how mature this guy is, he has been trouble since day one, this guy does not deserve the privilege of playing pro hockey!

Don't get baseball confused with Hockey, in baseball the manager fills out the roster, in Hockey as stated by others the League (NHL Operations) does it. So when he does pick Osgood, he will be going to the insane asylum because no one will have a clue why he is naming all stars, and then when he snubs Pronger he will be committed because why would he snub one of the top 5 d-men in the game. Listen I hate the guy as much any other fan that apparently is not voting for him, but he will be on the team.

And it is a good thing that they played Boogard because had they not played him they wouldn't have won the seri... ohhh nevermind my bad!

Here is a thought for you: I think Dan Cleary would have been a terrific line mate for the aging Steve Yzerman. Not the Young kid Yzerman, or the dominant Yzerman, The later years, when he was playing 3rd or 4th line minutes. Yzerman always worked hard but he relied on his work ethic more at that time in his career than skill and work like when he was younger. With guys like Cleary and Draper that would have been a kick ass line. But unfortunately at that point in time Cleary was not on the roster nor was not the player he is now. I think this team really has an Yzerman like attitude to it, a lot of guys (huds, flip, even sammy) that are playing better than what people think of them. Guys working hard, if this team plays like this for another couple of years I think you will see the fan base grow again. Not only are they talented and winning but Babs has them working hard on both ends of the ice. And most fans like to watch a team that works hard, sure their favorite player may be the flashy guy, but usually when it is a team people want a hard working team. Then again I could be completely wrong, it is beer Friday at work!

Uh oh you took the bait hook line and sinker!!

Very true instead the wings have a bunch of guys that take control of the game with the puck on their stick and are very gifted at taking the puck away with their sticks. I would love to see a Scott Stevens type of guy on this team but I don't see that happening. Getting a hitter to get a hitter at this point in time in the season is like getting a Heavyweight fighter at this point in time in the season. The wings will probably be looking to add depth to the D and Forward positions, and I agree it would be nice if one of the two if not both could bang, but I am not sure that should be the first characteristic of his game they should look at.

The thing is though, you have to think about where most of those giveaways take place. Lebda's giveaways, based on his style of play, happen all over the ice, behind his own net, behind the opponents net. Lilja on the other hand most of his turnovers are at center ice or in his own zone. So going purely off of numbers could be a little misleading.

IMO they are both done.

College Hockey it would have to be THE U OF ME Black Bears!

Couple of things here: 1. Did he pick that up from Cheli or is it me. I don't remember Lids doing that so much until after watching the success that Cheli had with it? 2. Aren't shots only counted if they are going in, like a save, if a goalie stops a puck outside of the crease (like to start up the pp) it is not a save. Aren't shots supposed to be the same way, if you whistle one a mile wide it isn't supposed to be a shot on goal, granted different score keepers in different barns will do it differently, but what is the "standard" set by the league? 3. Ralf is a very very good defenseman, will be the #1 after Lids unless some major trade goes down or one of the prospects has an unbelievable start to their career. (and I do mean not believable) When you compare him (or almost anyone) to Lids you are always going to find faults in their game, that is just a fact.

The reigning QMJHL CHAMPION LEWISTON MAINEIACS!!!!! I am hoping Guys like Bernier, Picard, and Denny will soon be in the bigs and hopefully play major roles, it looks like Bernier is well on his way, but it would be nice to see some of the other guys make an impact. When I lived in Auburn, ME (Lewiston and Auburn are jokingly referred to as the twin cities) watching a Lewiston Vs. Drakkar Baie Comeau game was like watching a 12 round title bout!

Yes a resounding yes!!!!!

29 years old, has any one in recent memory ever fallen so far so fast. It was almost like he left Boston and forgot to bring his offense with him.

+/- on this team is going to be vastly out of skew, this teams goal diff is re-donkulous!!!! But really my point was that if he got better defensively he would be an A, which would be unbelievable, I think he and Huds are really solid players, but they are just a little step away from being really really special players. After reading my post I see where it looks like I was saying they don't play D, I just meant that the D part of their games is what is keeping them from being A's.

I worry greatly about the Central division record. IF the wings were to draw The Blues or The Blackhawks in the post season I would be very worried. I know that multiple game series is different than once here and once there. But still, as stated before, they have 14 games down the stretch against the central, and as it is right now they have a horrendous record against the south.

I think McCleod's are spot on, that is probably because he had first quarter rankings. Looking at the season so far as a whole hurts guys like Hasek, Kronwall, but as a whole I thought both were pretty solid rankings. Just for tee hee's and ha ha's I did my own: Goalies A- What a great Tandem! Hasek: B That slow start really hurt his ranking, but he has started to shine nicely. Osgood: A What can you say about this guy's performance this year! Defense: B+ Lids: A+ Ralf: A- He has played well and lived up to expectations. Kronwall: B- The start this kid had made me worry a lot about if he was going to be another Max K. Lebda: B-/C+ Playing with the wiley Vet may help him a lot more down the road but he is just starting to develop. Lilja: C I like this guy, not one of those who wants to trade him all the time, but looking for more from him. Meech: INC I just haven't seen or read enough about this guy to say. Cheli: A Seriously the only reason I didn't give him an A+ is because that would seem like I was saying he is as good as Lids. Forwards: A- Cleary: A This guy is slowly becoming my favorite wing. His play is infectious, he is the poster boy for the Mike Babcock system!!! Dats: A+ Come on the guy is so good at Offense that nobody really notices how great of a defensive forward he has become. Zetta: A+ I was looking for what to type here and nothing I typed was descriptive enough! Homer: A It is no longer the fact that he plays with D-Z, he has become a great player for this team and before getting hurt looked like he was going to take over, and be a beast in the offensive zone. Flip: B+ Exceeded my expectations and is on his way to being a top performer, just not there yet, would also like to see him better in the D zone. Huds: B+ Exceeded my expectations and is on his way to being a top performer, just not there yet, would also like to see him better in the D zone. Sammy: C+ Needs to become less streaky, and a little more physical, not fighting physical, grind it out physical. Mule: B- Underrated player who will play where ever babs puts him. Draper: B+ This guy is the poster boy for TEAM player! Maltby: C- Hard to say how long the back was a problem, hopefully he has a great second half and the back is not and issue. Drake: C- The cheek bone has kept him from being what I expected. Downey: B+ Now before you think I am comparing him to Dats or anyone, this is based off of my expectations, and he has far exceeded them. Ellis, Hartigan: C They have filled in nicely, but have not really provided much. Kopecky: C Not sure why but I had higher hopes for this guy. He hasn't been horrible, but I was looking for more. Coaching A+ I am not sure if all of the credit lies with Babcock on this one or if he has a bunch of assistants, if Scotty and Stevie are helping out. I don't really care, if he is getting help from Scotty and Stevie that just shows how smart he is. If he has the team playing this well and this hard night in and night out, than I don't care how he does it. He has a great blend of Vets and Youngsters, he has his top players working hard on both ends of the ice and that is carrying down to the lesser players. I feel bad for Dave Lewis, he was stuck being the guy after the legend and no one wants to be that guy. Babcock on the other hand came in with a gap between Bowman and him, we(as fans) had witnessed two consecutive playoff failures. He has this team on the verge of great success. Hopefully he can get them over the hump and get the cup. The second half should be a fun one to watch!!

To jump onto a thought from Matt in another thread I think Babs deserves some of the Credit for Cleary. Don't get me wrong Dan deserves a ton of credit for turning his career around, but I think Babs has helped a ton, he has the whole team working hard. And playing hard-nosed hockey just seems to be right up Dan's alley!!!