Opie

Campbell, now that I can say is a great idea. This kid is going to be a norris candidate one day, Ok maybe a bit of an overreaction, but he is a damn good dman. Edit for clarity: I know he is 28, but that is still a kid to me!!

So Lucic, with 3g 5a 8pts isn't helping out offensively, this kid is young and can scrap, yet he has offense at a young age. Sidenote: I love watching this kid play, if Bergeroen can be himself again, and you add Kessel, Lucic, Rask, Savard, they have the makings of a good young core. I know Savard is not as young as the others. Either way I don't want an enforcer per say, because most enforcers are like Ivannas, Laroque, etc.., I want some one willing to fight and that can get 8-12 goals, 12-15 assists, and be some where near the + side of +/-. which is what Lucic is rounding into. So I guess those guys are still around, I agree they are few and far between though. Funny though whenever I watch Junior or AHL hockey I see a lot of guys willing to scrap, then you see them in the NHL and they won't swing. Maybe it is fear of the big boys, who knows. What I don't want is a goon, some one who sole responsibility on this team is to fight. That was why I was against Downey, still not sold on him but the worst thing he has done so far is cost Ozzie a shut out. He didn't lose the game by taking dumb penalties or making a ton of turnovers. And I agree with Swede 40, why pick up a player half way through the season if in 40 games he is going to be a black ace! You are going to have to give something up to get a guy who may have 4-6 fights in 40 games and then sit the pine, meanwhile the player who will replace him in the playoffs will be sitting in the press box the rest of the season not getting chemistry with his future linemates. A deadline deal should be made to improve this team in the post seson. Unless the wings take a terrible slide, they are all ready in the post season, why work to improve the regular season roster when it will only hurt the post season roster.

Rolston is a UFA at years end, currently making 2.4m, I think he could be had for 2.5-3mil 4 years. Edit: Damn I didn't realize he was 34, make that 3 years.

Personally who I would like in the winged wheel most of all is Brian Rolston and Pavol Demitra. Now I know there is no way in hell either of those two will end up here, but Rolston would be a great fit on the second line with Huds and Flip. Then Sammy either moves down a line or out the door (via trade). Rolston is a very underrated player in my opinion. But here are my thoughts on what you posted (not that you probably care lol!): Aaron Ward, didn't the wings try that once already. He is not that good, he does well on the B's team, but Tim Thomas is what saves (punintended) that defense, I have no idea what snapped in him all of the sudden but he looks legit out there and makes huge saves. Foote, past his prime overrated. (keep in mind IMO) Comrie, would love it. Nagy, not sure he would be a good fit style wise, but hard to say when he is playing on such a crappy team. Holik, something deep inside of me screams no, for some reason this wouldn't work. Not sure what though. Hossa, Love the guys talent, I just question his heart and desire. Feds, no, no, and no oh and did I mention no. Ryder, no they already have Sammy. Blake, no, his prime has gone past, 5 years ago I would have been all over this one. Stuart, not a bad d-man, some size, wouldn't mind him, but he wouldn't be my favorite of all time either. Forsberg, I wouldn't wish him upon my worst enemies favorite team. He will demand a high salary, and then miss half of the season! Dumont and Gelinas I am neither here nor there on, I don't think either would make a huge difference but would help.

Please don't misunderstand what I meant, if I in anyway was comparing Downey to D-Mac in that statement it was very unintentional. I am one of the Anti-Downey crowd, I am just eating a little crow when I talk about how he has played. I would love him if he were anything like D-mac. I would love to have an enforcer, a legit light heavy weight that had the ability to score, Downey is not that, he is just playing his role well and I think he should keep it. Unless of course the next Shanny of his prime is available of course.

Plus the Ducks need to get rid off defenseman and get offense not add to already the deepest Blue line in the NHL. Edit: get rid off is a little strong of a word, either way they don't want to add to the Blueline

I assume based off of you username you are kidding but in case you weren't 13 players on the roster are born in either Canada or USA leaving 12 more players being of European decent. Because this team is one of the teams that uses European talent and has a lot of it in the high profile positions doesn't mean it is all European or that N. Americans are not allowed on the team. If you were kidding around like I think you were nevermind this thread but there are people who truly believe that even though if you look at this offseason the wings added Ralf (USA) Drake (CAN) Downey (Can)

You know I have to ask the question: What is the point in words like KEWL and FURST they don't save you any typing, I understand doing things like BTW it saves you having to type 5 letters. But First and Furst are the same length, is dumb the new cool, uh sorry KEWL!

The one observation that I have taken from the first half of the year that stands out in my mind is Dats overall ability. We knew Zetta was a very good two way forward, we knew Dats was unbelievable with the puck on his stick, but watching the few games that have been either on National TV or Yahoo, Dats backchecks with the best of them. His stick check when coming at a player from behind is as deft a touch I have seen in a long long time. Does he have any hooking or high sticking penalties, I doubt it, but how many times have you seen him skate up from behind and just nudge the players stick and turn around with the puck to start the O going. He doesn't seem to be exerting himself (like a certain Swedish defenseman we all know) but I have yet to see him put himself out of position. I am only talking D here, his offense we all know to be great, but his D is what impresses me the most. This kid is good!!!!! I can not wait for FEB 2, Wings B's I will be there!!!! You tell I'm coming, and hell's coming with ME!!!!!!!! Sorry for the Tombstone reference.

One thing about Bochenski is that when on the ice he does have a knack for finding himself in front of the net with the puck, the frustrating part about that is that he doesn't often put it home. He seems to have the raw ability and the understanding of where to be on the ice, it just seems for some reason he has not flourished yet, reminds me of Cleary. I don't know if it will ever click with him, but where ever he has gone it seems as though he has been a disappointment.

First off to answer the Thread No, this team does not need a legit Heavyweight, Downey is filling the enforcer role very well, and doesn't hurt the team. What this team should look at getting is either a legit top 6 winger, or 2 players for depth, a 4-6 d-man and a 4-9 winger. Getting a heavy like Ivannas would be over kill imo. He seems to be more of a thug, than and enforcer. He seems to be one of the guys that you think I need an enforcer on the ice if we are playing these guys. That could be a positive, but I see it as a negative, I like others have said do not want this to turn into the flyers. Plus with the record the way it is, the lack of an injury caused by thuggery, the fact that Downey got a point last night, and the fact that this team seems to have real good chemistry I really see no need to go get a big time fighter. If this team goes after a legit heavyweight fighter, Downey will no longer get minutes, so a combination of Downey and Heavy on a line is pretty much out of the question. Downey is currently logging about 4.5 minutes a game, those minutes would go to the Heavy that comes in. Logic says if you are bringing in some one to crack skulls and police the ice that out ranks Downey in the fight category he is going to take over Downey's role. I was not the biggest Downey supporter (I believe the correct term there is I was Anti-Downey) but he is filling the role admirably without being a detriment to this team (my biggest worry preseason). He has stepped up when needed, and shown that if you screw with one of his guys he will get you back, even if he is not on the ice that game. So I see no need to go after another heavy, now before any of you yell and scream about how I just want a bunch of "Fairies" on the ice, I actually want a winner on the ice. This whole "Pro-fighter" vs. "Anti Fighter" thing is getting out of hand. Because someone posts that they think Ivannas is a thug who provides nothing better than a Tootoo, that doesn't mean they want Fairies on the ice. The whole "Pro-Figther" crowd gets a little defensive when ever someone says they do not want another or a certain fighter. People are allowed to have opinions, and because they don't want another fighter doesn't mean that they want it to be Ballet on ice. Maybe just maybe, they don't like Sammy and want a replacement for him first, or they think that a top 6 sniper is more important. However, more often than not when they post that they don't want the fighter, a "Pro-fighter" yells and screams about how much of a weak team this is and how they will get crushed in the post season. Last year they didn't lose because they got beat up. ANA played the same style of game as CGY and SJS, the difference 1. M. Schneider being healthy, 2. The PP sucked ass in the ANA series 3. ANA beat the wings with timely scoring that deflated the wings 4. Bad turnovers led to the untimely goal scoring. And if the Wings win the cup, Downey will deserve some credit for helping keeping people healthy (I admit it), however he will see exactly 0 minutes in the post season unless there is an injury or the team starts off like they did in 02 (0-2 against the nucks).

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&a...rticleid=347916 I didn't see this on the first couple of pages and a search returned nada as well. Pretty decent article about filppula from 12/29

IMHO: Flip and Huds are expendable if you are either: A) only considering this year. B) don't have a salary cap. ** Note: Remember if you claim to be in the "I don't care about next year I just want a cup" crowd, if they win this year you can not say the same thing next year, you got your way. It is like selling you soul to the devil for a pizza, once the pizza is gone you can't get your soul back!** In the salary cap ere there is nothing more valuable than young talent. Expendable players right now would include: Sammy (as long as a top forward is coming in return) Downey Drake Maltby (injury makes this nearly impossible) Kopecky Ellis Hartigan Lilja (As long as a top 4 d-man is coming in return) Lebda (As long as a top 4 d-man is coming in return) J-HO (as much as it pains me to say it, if a legit young #1, ie. Ryan Miller, netminder were available the wings would have to do it!) The prospects on D are a little bit more expendable now that Lids and Ralf will be here for at least two more years, as long as one or two are kept for injury's sake. Forward prospects are a little harder, if they need to be thrown in to get a legit top 6 forward that the team has the opportunity to sign long term, i.e. not Lecavelier, Hossa, Sundin, then I am all for that. Trading Sammy for a 4th liner and a pick would destroy the chemistry of this team and leave them with a huge void that he is actually filling right now. Granted he is not putting up top 6 numbers, but he is doing it well enough that this team is in first place. If he is going to be traded the team will have to have a pp point (looks like Lebda may in training for this one), and a top 6 forward (again not that he is that is the role he fills.) otherwise trading him leaves a pretty big hole. I believe this team is one maybe two moves away from assuring the cup, but also one move away from sinking the team. The wings have to be careful not to move laterally, for instances the Ryder trade. A move that will hurt chemistry and at the same time not make the team any better. Not really knowing who is up for trade right now I can not say specifically whom they should persue. But a guy like Brad Boyes, I know, I know there is no way in Hell a division foe gives up one of their best players, I am just saying that type of player would be nice. I will have to look into who is available before I say one way or the other. **another note, if a player was available that was of Thornton (one name I picked not stuck to this name just and example) situation, a top 25 player in the league under a long contract that is a steal of a deal, then the only non expendable assests are Z-D-H, Lids, Ralf, Osgood (he will be needed drastically in the getting J-Ho ready for the big time project).**

Who then? Who on this roster should fill his spot? Who currently on the roster has the ability to play that role, without screwing either the top Offensive line or top defensive line up? Who on this team is a proven pp point man that isn't already on the first pp? Who do you want to take his place, give me a name. You are willing to ***** and moan about a player but not offer any reasonable option besides Sammy. And yes your expectations of him are unreasonable, you are looking for a legit top 6 forward to take his spot, if the team had one, or acquiring one were that easy don't you think Holland, Babs, or whomever would have done it by now? HE IS FILLING A VOID!!!!! Why can't you people understand this, the team has 3, yes count them 3, bona fide top 6 proven scorers (all on line 1), 2 guys that hopefully will develop into it, a guy in Cleary who is doing a great job as a checking line/energy guy so moving him to that spot messes up a line that is doing really great and the team hasn't had a checking line this good since Mac. If you want to complain that the team needs top 6 scoring I will listen and even agree with you, but saying Sammy sucks and doesn't fit, can't pass, is worthless, are all BS. And where were you to post when he had his 6 game point streak in tact? I didn't see these threads lighting up with Sammy can't play when he had 3g 5a 8 pts in 6 games, 7 if you include the shutout loss. Shutout in bold because that means that no one else scored either!

Detroit # 1 Fan, I am going to assume that because of the Holidays you haven't been around to see me post 15 x's a day (I exaggerate a little but not much) about how he provides a lot of things for this team. But here are the reasons I post ones like the one you quoted: Because when I post his stats, or the things he has done, the Sammy haters (which most are Downey lovers, not all) give the credit to his linemates, being on the pp, luck, freak indoor blizzards (I kid). When I post about how he gives the team the ability to keep the top line together and the top pp together there is no response, and on the nights he does get points when I look at the board the Sammy haters are no where near the Sammy threads. They stay away, until the minute he makes a bad play. Then the board is filled with the Haters, holy s*** did you see that bad pass that didn't but almost led to a goal. He is going to cost the wings the cup... blah blah all the other bulls***. They want Micheal Ryder, who has worse stats and has been benched, or they scream and yell for his head and a trade but do not offer any logical trade. Yet Downey stepped up and did his job, according to the Downey Lovers. He was supposed to stop Z from getting hurt (go back to the early Downey threads for proof of this accusation), he was supposed to bring energy to the game with the fight. But he gets to skate (no pun intended) on any responsibility for the loss, yet some how Sammy will cost the team the cup. I bring up Downey to prove a point, most of the haters have different expectations for Downey, because they look at the game he provides and set different goals. The problem being they only do that because he fights. Sammy does not fight so for some reason he is expected to produce nightly like he is D or Z. He is expected to play flawlessly like Lids. Guess what as you admitted, he is not of that caliber of player, so for each player on this team we as fans must look at what they bring to the table and evaluate them with a different set of standards. It has always been that way, their were different standards for Hull, Luc, Feds, Igor, Stevie Y, Shanny, etc... I have posted this before in other threads but here it goes again, Sammy is a career bottom 6 forward that has offensive upside, the wings are short one top 6 forward, he fills the role on the 2nd line that few currently on the roster can fill. The only other forward that could take that spot is Cleary, Cleary's chemistry with Draper is getting better and better, breaking up that line would be a mistake. Sammy is not, really not even close, to what Babcock made him out to be. But he is closer to that than what these threads and posters make him out to be. My advice to the Sammy haters, if you aren't willing to post when he is on a 5+ game point streak, don't post when he has one bad game in a row. It is like being a poor weather fan, you know instead of fair weather fans posting only when a team or player is doing well, these people only post when they do badly. Remember in the beginning of the year Huds and Flip were being talked about as being underachievers who should be traded. My how people tunes change!

Here is a question, because downey fought and the team lost does that mean he had a s***ty night too. I mean he didn't score, his fight didn't turn the energy, Zetta has been hurt, all of the things that Downey being on the ice that he was supposed to bring to the team and none of it happened . Downey sucks and is lazy!

He had one bad game in a decent stretch, and you guys are all over him, next time he has a two point game I expect you to be here overreacting and singing his praises to the same extent. He played like crap, the team as a whole did not play that great. He made one glaring mistake, and now he is going to cost the team the Stanley cup. Relax, one bad game for him and the team in about 12 games.

Oh sorry, the wings traded him to ANA for Beauchemin, Perry, Moen, a first and 2nd next year, and and autographed copy of the new book called, "Playing in the pond with my brother" written by the Neidermayer brothers!! lol :beerbuddy:

And it would be sweet when the wings have to try and pay AO and Z, wouldn't it?

To piggy back that idea, since the wings will be trading for Henrik they will no longer need Howard, the wings trade him to the Caps for AO and the Caps agree to pay half of AO's salary. Plus they trade Kolzig to Tampa for St. Louis and Lecavalier, they throw Vinny in as a throw in to the deal to make the wings accept the deal!

Aflac I saw something in your OP that floored me. Now I know Dallas Drake is not the reincarnation of Gretzky, however in his 14+ seasons he has 400 less assists than nick in his 15+ seasons. That is pretty god damn impressive. Either way I am soooooo happy this game will be on Versus so I can watch the wings again!!! Wings 4 Blues 2 Seems to be working lately! Dats, Lids(PPG), Ralf (PPG), Cheli (EN) Kariya, Boyes (PPG) BTW the only players on that list not on my fantasy team are Cheli and Kariya

Alright, I am usually the first person to come on here and defend the untruths told about Sammy and to point out the realization of the situation (Say that with a Mike Tyson lisp and it is funny). SO here I go again: HEY BABCOCK: He is a decent player filling a role and doing a good job at it, The only way Sammy is an elite player is if you are comparing him to ME!!!!!!!!!

This is a pretty good forum if you can weed your way through the "Bring Back ____", "Goalie war", "___ Sucks and is Lazy" threads, once in a while you will even find a nugget of truth in those threads as well!!!

Wingsfan40, I see that time coming sooner rather than later, I am amaze that he is still playing this well, I really have to think a lot of it is his desire and work ethic, but that offseason workout routine has got to take most of the credit. I think Cheli being the competitor he is he will take an yzerman approach, meaning when he is no longer able to play at an acceptable level (to him) he will leave the game. I see him retiring before the wings have to say, listen dude, you are not worth 850k anymore!

As far as this season goes I would say that Detroit is the best D in the league, Anaheim has the personnel and the potential to be the best, but the facts show that this year the best D is in the 'D'! It is arguable I will say but I think ANA will be better the rest of the year, adding neids only helps, but I think currently it is Detroit, IMO!