Opie

GET RID OF THE STUPID F*%!NG INSTIGATOR RULE

I think the only two defenceman ahead of Lids are Harvey and Orr. Not sure he will ever over take Orr, and lets be honest folks being the third best defenceman of all time is pretty damn good, especially when you consider the two ahead of him. If he gets another 2-3 norris trophies he would be even with Harvey. But being behind Harvey is not a slight in anyway, to mention his name with the likes of Bourque, Harvey, and Orr is a compliment already. I do have to say though if I am starting a team and I have to pick two defenceman for my top pairing Orr, Lids. That combination would work wonders. Orr would be all over the ice, people would be ooo-ing and ahhing over his skating abilities. Mean while Lids would be playing great defense, playing the point on the pp, assistis, they would dominate the league.

I said this already but I think this incident was the closest to clean and I will add I think it deserves a lesser suspension than Hartnell. He did leave his feat and his elbow was up, but the difference with the others is that the player was in a vulnerable position. I think this fine was a little heavier because he was a flyer, had a star player done it to a flyer it would have been 2 games like Hartnell. But I think Hartnell deserved more than 2 games.

Then root for the Flyers, if the team you want to root for is not the team and does not have the tendencies to be what you want to root for than maybe you should find a team that plays dirty, tries to injure, and are being flat out thugs. OR You could stay a wings fan and root for the organization that has been classy upstanding for years. I am all for rooting for whatever team you want, If you want that team to fight more that is fine, but saying you want to root for a completely different style of team than the one you are rooting has ever been. (even in the Dead Wings era they weren't thugs.) Remember these Flyers are not playing Gordie Howe hockey, or old school Hockey. They are doing things that are down right disrespectful to the game and it's past. The game has a bad enough image with out this. This team has 5 players that have been suspended in 25 games, that is ridiculous and completely unnecessary, and the worst of all is that this last one was the closest to clean, followed by the Jones hit on Bergeron.

Again another flyer leaves his feet before contact is made!!

He is second in scoring on the team and that doesn't matter, well seeing as he has better stats than Jason Blake does this year how does that impact you opinion on Jason Blake? So if lack of consistency and injury are important to you, and his numbers this year really don't matter it is what he has done in the past that makes you think he is nothing special would you trade Sammy straight up for him? Flip? who on the wings in your opinion most closely resembles what Antropov brings to the table. Because I will tell you right now imo he would be an upgrade over any current wing forward other than Z or Dats. He has yet to play one forward position for longer than a couple of months at a time. Is he living up to his # 10 pick in the draft, No, but he is a damn good forward and if he struggles to get to or comes just short of 25 goals, he would make a damn fine addition to this team. His projections for this year are (obviously at his current pace) 30g 46a 76pts and all of this while average just short of 20 minutes. But on second thought you are right based on his past numbers he would suck, lets just mortgage the future on Sudin alone, trade the other half of the Org for Rob Blake, after all his past numbers are great. But either way my point to posting his name is that if the Leafs want that much for 2 months of service for Sundin they better throw something into the deal that will be with the Wings long term.

NO, the wings do not need Blake, nor Sundin at the moment, and seeing as the trade deadline is months away the team doesn't need to look for anyone until at least February, and here are my reasons why: Team stats NHL Rank Goals -- 85 -- 2 Assists -- 158 -- 1 GFA -- 3.25 -- 1 GA -- 61 -- 7 GAA -- 2.31 -- T-5 Goal Dif -- +24 - - 1 Wins -- 18 -- 1 Loses -- 8 -- 1 Or 32nd depending how you look at it either way they have the least amount of losses in the NHL. There are 9 players with 11+ points so far this year and Flip has 9 and is on the verge of double digits. There are 5 players on the team that have a - +/- rating. The guy starting between the pipes has the best GAA and 6th best SV%, oh and he is 13-1-1. Quick lets trade off all of the young talent for Kipper, Blake, Sundin, and George Laroque. Then the LGW faithful will be happy, they will have "The goaltender of the future" an ageless wonder on D, an ageless wonder at center (a position the wings are overloaded in), and their enforcer. All it will cost this team is any one with any potential, the second line, all of their draft picks, and all of the season after this when Blake and Sundin walk via free agency. People please start thinking, this team doesn't need rental players. Who were the rental players the wings got last year, Bert and Calder. How did that work out for the wings? And those trades cost the wings barely anything. Sundin will cost prospects, draft picks, and a current player (huds or Flip) at minimum which is over payment. I have an idea lets start a petition to fire Holland and sign Jeremy Jacobs!!!

Is it me or do all of the Flyers have the same answer when this comes up: "It was stupid and I didn't mean to hurt any one I just wanted to make a hard hit." Oh really well why in the hell is it that even though no one in the Flyers organization wants to hurt anyone, yet their version of hard physical hockey is the only version that leaves people in the ER with regularity. As Hully said yes it happens, it is part of the game, it is unfortunate, but when you play stupid and dirty you are ruining the game and taking out some of its best players.

Yeah and the Leafs are lucky he signed it as well. He is second in every offensive category to Sundin except assists in which third behind Sundin and Blake. And isn't this the same board that people clamber for more PIM's. Hell isn't that a part of the reason people ***** about Dats, they give him s*** for being a Lady Bing every year. Yet Antropov who is in the top 3 for his team in all major offensive categories and is + 6 (also second on his team) on a team that is struggling and is 10-11-6 right now, takes dumb penalties. I don't watch many Leafs games, but my bro-in-law is a huge Leafs fan and he and I talk Hockey all of the time, this is the first year he has had anything nice to say about Nik, and he has had a lot to say. Yeah the wings should definitely pass on this guy if he were thrown in the deal! The past is the past, but like you said injuries, shifting of linemates, shifting of positions has caused a delay in his game. Does the past impact you opinion of Dan Cleary? Man there are so many times I am thankful that Holland is the GM. Half of you guys would probably trade Hudler, Flip, Lilja, Sammy, and Kronner for Miro Satan and Bryan Berad, but try to throw Downey in on a trade and watch the s*** hit the proverbial fan around here, not that he would be a focal part of any trade anyway.

You also then should be taking into consideration that this is the first year that he has played in the same position for more than 2 or three weeks, in years past he has moved from Center to Wing to Center back to wing. This year he also has had consistent linemates. Last chance for the wings to win a cup?????????? Has the NHL released a decision to shut the league down and I didn't hear about it, did they make changes to the CBA and now no one can sign free agents or trade anymore??? OR>> Does the OP of that statement like crack a little bit more than the rest of us. Yes losing Lids and Cheli will be hard to make up for, but wasn't the loss of Schneider supposed to be detrimental, weren't this and last season supposed to be rebuilding years?? Overreact much? Sundin would be a great addition to this team don't get me wrong, but that price for one forward for a maximum of 4 months is too high. Especially when you have no idea what his intentions are for next season. Trading Hudler for a rental is an alright idea in my book as long as it doesn't take prospects and a draft choice along with him for one player that will be in the D for a mere 2 month stretch, if it does win the wings the cup this year, most of you will be back on this board, moaning about the fact that there are no prospects left in the system and all of the second line talent was traded for a couple of rental players. The team is in first place (league not division or conference), the secondary scoring is coming on a nightly clip, guys like Hudler, Cleary, Filpula, are chipping in. I know the LGW expectations are high on some of the role players but Lebda is doing a great job (No, he is not lids), Cheli is playing like I haven't seen him play in a couple of years (in the play offensively a lot this year, although he has a hard time hitting the broadside of a barn). This team is playing very good hockey right now, could they slide yes, could they get better yes, could one injury take down the whole team yes, (they lose lids and it is all but over). But all of those things can be said for every team right now. Oh and guess what, there will also inevitably come a time when the team loses, I don't know say 4-5-6 maybe in a row, and this board will freak out like it is the reckoning day. But until the wings show a definite sign of falling out of the race I don't see the point in making a trade for the sake of making a trade. Fill a need sure, but don't overpay for it so that you can say, hey guess what I made a trade for Vinny L, it just cost me Dats, Huds, and Kindl, but now the team has a legit second line scoring option, it just lost half of the first line's production that's all. In the salary cap era trades for rental players will slow down, because by nature a rental trade will be worth less than a trade for a player who is under salary for 2 more years. Logistics.

Is it maybe just that Dano is just a late bloomer and the talent that got him drafted in the first round is now coming through? Is it his linemates? Is he working harder for Babcock? Is it just a streak? I really can't see the games and can only see what games make Vs or what I can catch on NHL.com, so My questions are out of curiosity. Any answers? Thoughts, discussion!

I love the part about malts needing a hug in the morning.

I did not know that!

Sundin will be a one year player, if the wings win the cup with him, he could think retirement or he could go to ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE!!! You don't give up that much for a guy you will have for a couple of months, that is 37 and you are doing him the favor. Bourque was traded to Colorado with Dave Andreychuk for Brian Rolston, Martin Grenier, Samuel Pahlsson, and a first round draft pick. (at the time of the trade Red Wing current Equivalent) Rolston (= Hudler) and Pahlsson (=Kindl ) Grenier (a nobody) and a first rounder, for two HHOFers. Not just one. If that is really what the team is asking for for a 37 year old Sundin then I say NO!! They better throw in Boyd, ahh I mean Antropov with that.

Cool I wasn't sure because I knew it was $10 for Nashville and the article said $5 for Tampa.

OR Dats!! Just kidding, he will probably get a career high of some where around 30-40. Which is not too shabby!!

Something I learned reading through the crap about Tampa's sale/non-sale is that in order for a sale to be binding the purchaser must pay a percentage of the total cost up front. So for example, in Tampa the amount due was 5 million, do you know what the % is?

If Huds and Flip can get half of the Chemistry that dats and Z get, we could be looking at a good couple of lines that will be together for a while. Now I am not saying talent will be the same but think about what this team has done in the past. Maltby Draper is a great example.

Bulls*** I will believe a sale when it is finally done and even then I will still be skeptical!

Apparently MacLean and his group didn't pay up the 5 million that was due as a part of the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AkFU...p&type=lgns

Those should be some impressive 4.5 minutes shouldn't they!!!

Hank, You are forgetting the "Detroit Red Wing return to power" phenomenon. Don't you remember all former wings regardless of how s***ty there career has become, regardless of what scouts, coaches, or GMs say when that player returns to the wings they will also return to the form they were at when they were last a wing! On a serious note, I wish Mac the best in life and hope he recovers greatly, but he will need to prove that he can play before the wings of any other team takes a serious look at him. Until them he is an lesser achieving Todd Bertuzzi, he has become often injured and that doesn't bode well for a guy who plays that type of game. I would rather pass on this and end up missing out, as opposed to taking the risk only to further embarrass Mac and also have a youngster lose Ice time hoping Mac can be D-Mac of old.

Would Jagr really want to sign for 3-4 mil a year when he can and probably will get twice that on the free market? If that is the case and we can get Jagr for Bertuzzi money than I am all for it, but that is unrealistic so I will stick with my no answer.

* sniffs, wipes tears away from eyes* Eva you have always been one of my favorite posters *sniffs [sarcasm] Logic, realism, what is wrong with you, don't you know that as a red wings fan it is your duty to ignore logic, refuse to research your posts and bash anyone that doesn't draft Big, Hulking players who do little more than drop the mitts, because as you know THIS TEAM NEEDS GRIT AND ENFORCES and since they don't have any it must be Hollands fault and therefore he doesn't draft N. Americans. Damn you Eva how many times do I have to scold you!!! [/sarcasm]

No way in the world a salary cap era team can afford to have Ovechkin, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Rafalski, and Lidstrom, let alone carry those contracts and try to develop young talent. As young talent develops it becomes more costly, to get those 5 on your roster you are talking about at least 35 mil of the cap gone right there. That is not even mentioning the draft picks that would have to be given up to get AO off of RFA status. That gives you roughly 15 mil to get 15 more players at minimum. This team would be one line (the most devastating line in the history of the NHL) and one D pairing, then a s*** load of young unproven talent. You may be able to surround those guys with a bunch of Drake, Downey type journey men but I doubt it even then. This team is going to need the scouts more than ever now, all teams will. The wings will have to build around Z, Dats, Ralf, Lids (while he is still playing) use the likes of Cheli, Ozzie, Drake, Draper, and Homer to help build and strengthen the young guys like Flip, Huds, Grigo... (sorry about that, damn IT), Howard, Meech, Kindl, and hope that the middle of the road guys Kronwall, Lilja, Lebda can some how luck into being more than just role players. Z and Dats are young and apparently very happy playing together and in Detroit. Market them to the fans, make them the face of the Org.