Opie

I think that Grigs deserves all of the respect in the world for coming back from that accident. However coming back from a car accident has nothing to due with his ability to make this team. The accident may have impacted his skating, balance, shot, hell he may still be skating in pain. Unfortunately that is his obstacle to over come, and really has nothing to do with the team. Being in shape for camp is his responsibility, if the injuries he sustained are too much for him to be in the kind of shape he needs to be in than that is very unfortunate, again. The team can not sacrifice a year, or freely give him a spot. He still needs to earn it, if he physically can not perform at this level, that is again, unfortunate. The people who bash him because he is out of shape need to be a little more understanding of what he is going through, how ever, they are right. He needs to be in a certain physical condition to play at this level. He is clearly not there yet. Those of you who say lay off him he only had a 10% chance to live, need to be a little harsher on the guy. He is not in NHL shape, I am not saying you need to start trashing him, but hold him to the same standards as anyone else trying to make the club. Just because he was hurt severely in a car crash doesn't mean he gets a free ride. What he is doing, forcing the wings hand, is what I have the biggest issue with though. It is like the first pick in the NFL draft holding out for a contract this year. If you haven't earned anything it shouldn't be given to you. I am willing to have patience with Grigs and let him develop an NHL game, if he is willing to have patience with the organization. However he wants to be on the big club now, I would love for him to be a top 6 guy, if he had proven it.

That wasn't proof that fights win Hockey games, that was proof that a player will stand up for another on his team. I have been a staunch Downey non-supporter, but I will say him sticking up for his players gave them a good boost of energy. But that energy had nothing to do with the third goal. That was a fluke backhander that after it went in had more shark players hanging their heads and zapped more energy from them than when Lids hit the 100'-er to start the demise of the Canucks in 02. The body language of every shark player told the story. They were deflated! Now had the game been 2-0 or 3-0 sharks and then Downey fought and then the wings came back I would be the first person on here eating crow. However that fight didn't have an impact on the score of the game. It did energize the guys, but that 3rd goal was not a goal created by the energy the team had.

No need, we have this guy waiting in the wings!!!

I guess he is not shopping for Floppa anymore: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Se...F?urn=nhl,50344

I believe it was a one year contract and if he goes back they are done with him, I would imagine, unless he goes back and destroys the Russian Elite League, but even then you would have to ask yourself why would he tear that league up and not succeed in the NHL.

Larinov, Robataille, Homer, there is a list but I agree it is a small list of poor skating guys who make the big show and the ones who do usually have another attribute that is so glaring it gets them to the show. Larinov a great passer, truly gifted. Probably unfair to judge his skating ability considering his age when he crossed the pond. Robataille pure gaol scoring talent, give this guy Bure's wheels and Oh man what a player he would have been. Homer, well does anyone really want to stand where he stands. Grigs will have to show some form of an exceptional skill to get some serious ice time. Otherwise it will probably just be so that the wings can say they gave him the opportunity. I had high hopes for him, but I am not devastated that he isn't reaching them. Not everyone can be a Dats or Zata.

To BOS Marco Sturm Brad Stuart Wayne Primeau TO SJ Joe Thornton Stuart and Primeau are gone and Chuck Kobasew and Andrew Ference are there instead. I would rather have Joe over all 5 combined.

The last 2 years he was in Boston he was a great leader and by far their best player. He was still very young and had finally come into the form that was expected of him. He was the focal point of that team the minute he walked into the locker room at 18 (might have been 19). He, unlike Crosby, took a couple of years to get used to the pressure and stress. As soon as he started scoring and making plays it seemed like he kept getting more and more comfortable. And everything he said in the media led me to believe he was staying in Beantown for his career. All of the stuff I said above makes my mind swirl when I try to think of why on earth the team traded him. The Sharks pulled off a the biggest EA Sports trade ever realized in the NHL!!! Joe is a great leader and a great offensive player, his D needs work, but I would still take him in a heartbeat.

I was waiting for all of the wizard of oz jokes but didn't see any. I was seriously disappointed in the jokes on this thread. WingWarrior25 and interminded really put some effort forward, but where is the Wizard of Oz cast with Bettman photo shopped over the Scarecrow's body. Either way now I have another thing to add to my: "Fire Bettman, Hire Chelios # 24 sign" for the game in boston. Now I can add a pic of the scarecrow with Bettman's head on it!!!

Yeah because a 100' shot from Lids didn't have any affect on Vancouver and Cloutier, right? Yeah, I have never seen a goalie give up a weak goal and it affect the whole team? Sarcasm off!

Didn't see the game, so I can not comment on any of it. But from the sounds of it Downey was being Downey as I have said, give aways, a fight, and 3 minutes of offense. Ladies and gentleman that is Aaron Downey. BTW Kyle MclLren may be a big hitter (dirty usually I might add) but he is not a heavyweight fighter. Just because you are in the weight class doesn't mean you can bang with them. I love how you guys all love Ellis now though that is funny. A week ago I was defending Ellis getting ice time over Downey along with Kopecky. Now 7 games in Ellis is deserving a role and it is just Kopecky. Next week it will be Sammy who needs to go because Kopecky scored a goal or had a good game. I would also like to add that the game was 2-2 when Downey fought, again I didn't see the game so I don't know what the energy was before the fight, but the point is this wasn't a 2-0 or 3-0 game then he got in a fight and the wings game back to win. It was 2-2, a lucky bounce, a bad play, or any number of things and this game ends up 3-2 either way. But I will say, from reading this it sounds like Downey was who he will always be. A 3-4 minute guy with give aways and a fight. He got 7 shifts and 2:42 of ice time. Par for the course. Ellis' goal was just on sportcenter, that was BS and that is what deflated the Sharks!!!

Who is obsessed with Kopecky, how many threads are there on Kopecky, how many threads evolve into Kopecky debates. Who besides people who want him benched for Downey even bring up Kopecky? Now ask yourself all of those questions but replace Kopecky with Downey and then tell me which player is being obsessed over. Kopecky has potential, what that potential is no one will know until he plays. He could turn out to be a 13th forward like Downey, but there is only one way to find out. Take your Downey blinders off and look at his past, his history with other teams. HE SIMPLY DOES NOT PLAY THAT MUCH!!!!!

The bigger question is why not put Downey in net and let him fight the other netminders. After he knocks both of the netminders out, they will not be able to play. The team can then put another goalie in and it will be an easy win. Especially if Chelios has Downey's back!

So if Kopecky is in the press box, how do the wings ever find out what he can do. Kopecky is a lost cause?, yet Downey isn't, the guy bounces around more than ping pong balls. Not including his first two years that he played a total of 4 games here are his gp and ATOI stats (btw his rookie year was 99-00, Dan Cleary's 3rd year and Cleary is 5 years younger, so even before Downey got to the bigs no one really thought he was good enough to be a contributor). Downey's career year GP ATOI 01-02 36 not an official stat 02-03 43 4:47 03-04 37 4:30 05-06 42 6:43 then he was traded and got 3:56 06-07 21 4:59 07-08 2 3:01 which would equal out to be about 28 games Seems to me that the wings are using him as much as every other team saw fit as well. Kopecky, as I said, is unproven and untapped. The wings need to see what he can do. If he sucks it up and the wings are in danger of not making the playoffs he will be out of the line up. But it will not be Downey taking his place.

OK then tell me oh wise hockey man, Why have none of the teams he has played on played him more than half of the season? Well there was that one season where he did play 43 games. Anaheim has a few enforcers that do more than goon it up, Hartnell can do more than good it up. See about a month ago, I said there are no enforcers out there that I would want on this team due to either contract i$$ues, or lack of talent. That was seen as me being Anit-fighting. I would love to have Bob Probert on this team, he is not available, I would love to have Shanny in his prime, not available, Mac in his prime, not available, Joe Thornton of a couple of years ago, not available, get my point. You and others on here though see a guy who can and does fight and go ape s*** over it, however no one mentions that Drake has fought 3 times in 6 games. He may not be the next Stone Cold Steve Austin, but he is out there, plays very good defense, can chip in a few goals and a bunch of points. This team is struggling to find consistent secondary scoring, yet some of you (not you GMR) are saying Sammy should be given the boot and Downey should be playing, having an enforcer to simply say the wings have one, does nothing to help. If this team had 3 lines that went out there night in and night out and got scoring and defense, then fine put a goon on the fourth line, hell make an all goon line if you want. But the fact is this is a one line team. And until they can score with regularity with other lines, why on earth should Babcock take ice time away from a guy who can score, and give it to Downey who has shown in his career (oh he is 33 btw) that he can not be an every day contributor even as an enforcer. Edit: I am not saying this about all enforcers, again my thoughts an opinions in here are about Aaron Downey and his abilities to play. And if you think Downey is as talented than all of the other enforcers in the league you need to have your eyes checked. Oh but wait you obviously know more than the GM's and coaches he played for in the past. But we all already knew that, that is why every team in the league is beating down your door.

There is a world of difference between Joey Kocur and Aaron Downey and the sooner you accept that the less of a migraine you will get from reading these threads. If you notice not only did I compare Downey to Shanny but also I compared him to Tootoo and Hartnell. They are not exactly lamp lighters, but they can play D and their sole job is not fighting. I also compared him to Kocur who was able to play D. I am not an NHL coach nor do I run the NHL, however the people who have coached Downey and ran his teams have not played him much at all. I am making an assumption here but I would have to guess the reason he did play was either an injury or to give a guy some rest. Downey will not log key minutes on this team, he simply is not talented enough. Again I go back to what I said in my last post you are reading what you want from my posts. You saw that I wrote a comparison to Shanny which bunch your Vicky draws all up and you went off about if I ran the NHL which makes no sense. Also I don't know more than any GM in NHL history I am going by what people have done with Downey. Unlike yourself and many others I don't look at players as a group, Downey is an enforcer, we need an enforcer, put him on the ice now. I look at it as he has not done anything in his past, and very rarely gets on the ice. Downey is a deterrent to whom, who in the NHL right now is looking at the wings saying, "Man if Downey is in the line up I better be on my best behavior." Again let me save you some time, NO ONE!!!!!!! Just like your opinion is you want an enforcer any enforcer, mine is that I want an enforcer to do more than goon it up. People want to know why Downey is not getting more ice time. I answered that question.

So Kopecky scoring 1 goal in 25 games is not playing well, but in many threads you would like to see Downey due to his intangibles, yet Kopecky can only be qualified by goals scored. Things that make you go HMMMMMMM!!!

Knowing the Bruins they would move Kessel to make room for Markov!!!!!

Aaron Downey gets 2 shifts and 3 minutes a game because that is all he has ever showed he is capable of getting. Show me a team that he has played on in the NHL where that team thought he was good enough to be a regular contributor. I will save you the time, you can't. For those of you who want Downey out there because he some how earned it over Ellis or Kopecky, please tell me or show what he has done to do so. Ellis and Kopecky are young and the team needs to figure out if they can hack it in the bigs. If not then they will ship them off. All of you that for some reason thought that Downey would magically stop people from cheap shotting, bullying, or hurting the wings players were not listening when people like Eva and myself said it wouldn't. Because he simply will not get the ice time of a Tootoo or Hartnell. Because he is not that good of a hockey player. Is he good enough to make a roster, sure, good enough to contribute on a night in night out basis, NO, a resounding NO!!!! Some how those of you who thought he would make a difference had the opinion that he was going to show up in Detroit and have a career year, he may but you have to understand a career year for Downey would be 44 games, 5 points. You all overreacted when Eva, myself or others said he wasn't going to make a difference, we got called "anti-fighters" because we said Downey would not make an impact. And when we defended ourselves and said we would take an enforcer like Shanny or others you didn't read it or chose to ignore it. Some on here even compared Downey to Kocur or Probert. The man is a career 13th forward and as soon as the forwards get healthy he will end up in the press box. Facts are facts, the man doesn't contribute to a hockey team night in and night out. He sees limited minutes, not because the world other than some LGW posters have it out for him, but because he just isn't that good. Is he better than me, of course he is that is not what I am saying. Ellis and Kopecky are trying out to make the team, not only now, but for the future, they have an upside. Downey is Downey and always be Downey. A 13th forward. But I am sure I will be labeled anti-enforcer, anti fighter for saying all of this.

Then he could coach them all the way to the cup and they could forfeit the cup to the wings!!

Odds are they are going to want talented prospects, Kindl or the like. Maybe the wings should see if they will bite on a Grigs and Kindl package!

I am stealing another LGWer's idea I am going to the game on Feb 2 with a sign that says

PRICELESS!!!!!!!

Does any one know if the Wings are travelling back to Detroit and then back to SJ for the game on Thursday. There is two days between the game so it could make sense to travel back, but I think it would make more sense to stay in Cali for a couple of days. Then again, I work with computers not NHL athletes!

I just read a press release and according to the league between the new jerseys and the heated skates the players have a chance to be a total of 19.34567234117% faster!