Opie

Yet 6 threads about Aaron Downey on the first page are ok for you. Now with that out of the way, I am very scared about the scoring depth on this roster. I think right now the front office either: A> doesn't see anyone that can fill the void and will wait until some players become available to trade for. B> thinks the wings will be able to run away from the division and are trying to give the youth a shot. C> thinks that these young guys can hold there own. I on the other hand really see a need for a top 6 forward.

I think the Pavel line will be the # 1 line and Z's will be #2. Not because of it being some statement on their individual talents but based on the talent on their lines. I love the fact that these two will be in the winged wheel for a while to come.

My thoughts exactly!!!!

Not sure on TV coverage, However; good to see that Ralf is going to be playing.

Wait that wasn't THE Jesse Boulerice that was Carolina's enforcer during the cup run was it? On the walk to the box all Boulerice could here was tiny little Mickey's flying around his head saying "YA gotta keep ya hands up Rock!!"

Yeah but he loves ham sandwiches, that would be the kicker. The slice of pig flesh with some mustard and cheese and this man will love Illitch forever and we could use the B's as a second farm team. Just let them draft and build up good players only to trade them to Detroit for Pork Products and By Products!!

Being from New England and having lived here all my life, watching the Red Sox swoon and rebuild, then watching the Pats swoon and rebuild, and now it looks like the C's will do it too. Then there are the B's, and people wonder why I am not a B's fan! I have watched too, too much of them developing talent only to trade it for a multiple player deal. Or picking up a guy too late in his career to get 2-3 very good years out of them and then have to eat the rest of a 6 year deal. They are the worst judge of when to get rid of or pick up talent.

I think the Wings should throw an offer at the B's for Kessel. Some stupid deal like a bag of pucks, Meech, and a ham sandwich. I bet the B's bite on it. I would have said Bergeron but he is locked up long term, which is a move that surprises me coming out of Boston. That's rich, yeah Marco Sturm will eventually be better than one of the best players of the last 5 years and will be for probably the next 5. Yeah and Monkeys might fly out of my but!!

I love the wording on this, GS&T way to say what you mean!!!! OK GS&T whose spot does he take in those 41 games? Maltby's, I have already said I am fine with that. Kopecky, I would rather let the youngster get the feel for an NHL season and play more. Drake, I think people are underestimating what Drake will bring, but then again I could be overestimating. He may not fight but he will bring a nastiness with him, ask Lebda. Who else Cleary? not unless there is an injury, Franzen? Flip? Draper? I see this spot being for a guy who can offer up some rest to guys or fill in for a minor injury like a day to day thing. I am really starting to see a spot though for him to rotate with an aging and less effective Maltby. BTW that would mean he would play in his 3rd highest total games in his career missing his personal best by 2.

The wings are not some magical team that when people show up all of the sudden that add a dimension to there game they don't have. Using that same logic I could say that Kopecky will all of the sudden become a fighter because that is what the team needs. The same way all of the sudden a 33 year old player who has never scored more than two goals or four assists in a season will start to find the touch. Here is one of the main problems I have with Downey as the 13th forward, you would like your 13th forward to be more of an all around guy, who at last minute you can throw on the roster if Draper or Sammy or someone else has something happen last minute, The flu or a freak puck to the foot in warm ups. With Downey as the 13th you get a guy who can fight and skate, that is it. His defense is not that great or he would have been a Maltby type player for the other teams he was on. The man has 68 career shots on goal, that is 1 for every 3 games he has played. This guy is not going to morph into McCarty or Hartnell, just simply because he is on the wings, not going to happen! If Drake is out, Downey would be a good replacement, but that is one situation that he works out in. If Draper is out, do you really want Downey in that role? Cleary? Franzen? Sammy? Flip? Downey becoming the 13th forward has a lot more factors than just being an enforcer. Would it be nice to have an enforcer, sure, but the roster is set and unless they can get a guy who can score and garner a lot of points they are not going to start shifting the roster around, just to get an enforcer on the ice.

Because he said it was not a great fight, that means he thinks he could have done better himself? How did you get there from what he said? You said it yourself that was a pretty GOOD fight, not great, not unbelievably, not bad, not a wrestling match. Just a good NHL fight.

Do you ever watch games other than wings games? Please don't take that as an insult it is an honest question. Guys get run on every team, regardless of who is on the roster. Hully has even said that the players need to be able to police themselves, because too many guys are taking late, dirty, or high hits on players. It is a league wide pandemic! I understand that with a guy like Downey on the team it gives the wings someone to exact revenge, but as other "one sided mind" people have said with Downey in the press box what good does it afford. I do understand that you can dress him for games with bigger or more bad ass fighters. But are Boogard, Tootoo going to be the only ones trying to run Pavel or Z. So he may be a help for some games he plays, but people on here are acting like Pavel and Z will have a cone of safety around them because Downey is on the roster. That is simply not true because A. He will not play that much. Maybe 30 games. B. Other teams can take runs at these guys. C. The players can not police themselves until the Instigator rule is gone. D. No way Downey would see ice time in the post season unless he either finds a scoring touch or there were some big injuries.

This is like David Stern changing the ball on the players last year. Just because you are the commish doesn't mean you know what is best for the players. Rule changes are one thing, but equipment changes should have to have player reps from each team try out the new equipment and give a review. Hearing guys say that they can't get the sweat off of them is a bad thing. This is not an ad for under armour but I will try to make a little sense for you here: I wore under armour (before the knee injury last fall) under or for my soccer, workout, and volleyball clothes all of the time. Wicks away moisture and is very comfortable. My point: I was playing in a league and some one needed a sub, I had to wear a cotton T-shirt because my under armour was the wrong color. My shirt got so heavy from sweat that the weight of it was noticeable. The shirt became very uncomfortable and saggy. Honestly I didn't play as well. Now some of that may have been being tired, but I have played in many all day tournaments and one or two matches a day has never slowed me down before. Back to the point, I am an amateur athlete, no where near professional level. Plus I am talking about Volleyball and as much as I love the sport it is not the same work as hockey. These guys will absolutely hate these jersey in a week or less if this is how they work.

Somethings I would like to point out in that fight: i. Did you notice how uncomfortable Roy was trying to fight in that jersey. Before the fight started it look like he was trying to stretch the neck of the jersey out. ii. That fight was not a great fight by any means, don't get me wrong it was a good fight and I wouldn't want either of those guys hitting me with those wild punches. But Neither was able to really get a good position and land solid grounded punches. I think if either of them could have planted a foot and let one of those with momentum going forward, they would have knocked the other out. iii. The fight was a draw, anyone who says Downey got his butt kicked was watching that with their eyes closed. Neither guy did anything to show dominance, but both landed some really nice shots. A lot of punches off of the helmet and a lot that either glanced or came up short, mainly due to the merry go round movement. I didn't see either of them really get rocked, again due to them moving in a circle away from each other none of the punches hit with the force they were delivered with. Lots of end of the punch connections. All in all, Downey held his own very well against a pretty tough dude. I have to say I think that is the first hockey fight I have seen where neither guy tries to spin momentum in the other direction. The fight went counter-clockwise the whole time.

The real issue is who does Boston replace him with. He may not be a superstar but he was a very key role player on that team.

At this point in time GS&T hasn't Downey become an energy guy not an enforcer. In that case the wings have Cleary, Franzen, Drake, and potentially Kopecky on the team? If you are stating a case as Downey for an energy guy than all of my comments about him being an enforcer do not apply to your statements.

GS&T The problem I have and I think NN has, which gets people caught up and they start to argue and flame back and forth is this: This is not a debate, this is an argument. As soon as someone posts, I don't think the wings need an enforcer, the gates of hell open up and close minded people begin to belittle others. Unfortunately not all posters can post with an open mind. Most in fact will call you names the minute you have a different opinion. Because NN doesn't want an enforcer and he never played hockey, he has no understanding of the history of the game, and knows nothing. Because the only way you can have that is if you played hockey. However when he refuted that with saying they hadn't played NHL level, so they didn't have the understanding, he again was belittled. What about some one who never played hockey but wants and enforcer are they as naive to the history of the game? Then people post things like "well the players say they want one." Really has anyone ever polled all the players and said is an enforcer a necessary piece of your team. This constant turning every thread into an enforcer argument is getting nauseating and if it continues I am going to start posting your favorite pic in all of them.

Sticknmove, bare with me here there is a point here, it just may take a minute to get there. I am not sure you specifically have agreed to this point, but in this thread people have agreed that during the post season enforcer type people usually do not log a lot of minutes or in some cases even dress. Correct? The Wings were 2 wins and I would say 2 goals from the cup or even two saves away (the offense doesn't deserve all of the blame). I also think that most of us will agree that whatever West Conference team was in the finals was going to win it all. So had Detroit scored on a 5-3 or Lilja not hand over the puck to Selanne.... we have all heard it before; but they would have made it the finals. So if the wings can manage to be in a tie for best record of the year with Buffalo, and make it to the wcf all without an enforcer, yet most people have conceded that an enforcer is not going to play a major role in the post season, why is it a necessity to have one? I am not asking why you want one, I am not asking if the players would prefer one, why is it a necessity? Saying every team that has ever won the cup has had one, is like me saying every team that has ever won the cup had an assistant coach. Again bare with me for a minute. Most teams have an enforcer on their roster, in fact as you pointed out (I believe it was you) every other team has one, except for Detroit. So the odds of a team winning a cup with an enforcer is highly likely seeing as 29 teams would have enforcers and only 1 would not. And some of you are grabbing at straws when you include an enforcer on some of these teams. Jesse Boulerice, come one the dude had 6 fights. Does 6 fights make Lilja an enforcer. The description of his fights sound more like draws than wins. But I didn't see them so I can not say how they were imo, just going off of what I read. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it looks like you have the opinion that an enforcer is a necessity. I have changed my opinion (to a degree) about Downey being on this wings team. Put together an answer that will change my opinion about these question: If enforcers are not going to be major contributors in the post season why would a team that was one of the top 5 all year, and top 2 at the end, need an enforcer?

I guess the first line will have to be mule - flip - huds Then the three checking lines will be made up everyone else!

Damn It I have been Ninja-ed ©

Just a quick thought, although I would still vote for Downey over one and only one current wing player or prospect, does anyone else realize this guy has never played more than 43 games a season.

I will avoid the enforcer argument, but here is where I have a huge issue with people on this board as well: You seriously want Sammy and Huds off of this team. You want to take them out in favor who? Huds in limited time scored and showed that he could put up decent numbers, and people here are selling him off as the next suckbag. Sammy, all this guy has done is exceed expectations. People talk about being willing to let a fighter be on this team with out scoring, but want Sammy gone because he is not Shanny. Both of these guys score, and play important minutes. I know nobody likes seeing Sammy on the pp but with all of the left handed defenseman on this team last year who should have been on the point. You can't just through a guy back there and because he is a hockey player he can play the point on the pp.

I love J-Ho There now I got that out of the way, with Hasek healthy Jimmy needs to and will be in GR. As I thought about this I am glad that he will not be the #2 because that would force Osgood off of the team. Now I am not a huge Osgood fan, more of a hater, when it does come time for J-ho take over the reigns having a veteran guy like Osgood around, who is a similar style netminder will be paramount to Jimmy's development and success.

Bernier played for the Lewiston (my former hometown's twin city) Maineiacs and was a key to them winning it all in the QJMHL. He is a very solid backstop.

It is good to see that he said the rate of the game, I assume he really meant speed, was a lot to adjust to. So maybe he wasn't as badly out of shape as first thought he was just not used to the speed of the game.