Opie

Ahhh LIDSTROM is still playing!!

Find me one article that supports that argument, I will find you 10 that say he retired because he couldn't live up to his expectations of himself for everyone that you find. Your opinion is that the team didn't step up and that forced him to retire. What I have seen of Steve Yzerman in the past tells me that if the team around him didn't step up he didn't give up and walk away he played his ass off to make everyone around him better. His knees were killing him, he almost retired 2-3 times since the 02 cup. Once in the middle of the season. He even planned out the game he would make the announcement (dec 1 of the season after the lockout), it had nothing to do with his teammates. Now if you are saying not having him on the team cost the team the cup, that is a debatable topic. Saying the team forced him to retire is not factually correct and is not even debatable. He has said why he left, and I see no reason not to believe him.

I was just checking out Christy's site and was looking at the books I want to read the books, so my question is which one should I start with? I usually like to read one book about a topic and then read another topic, so I will read them all just not in succession. But I would like the opinion of people who have read them as to which one to start with.

It is not that the players were selfish and couldn't do those things with Yzerman here, it is the fact that with such a large shadow it is hard to step out of. Yzerman was/is a legend in Detroit. Remember the fan petition to remove the cup and put the mural of Yzerman up, remember the ovations he got just for stepping on the ice, etc... I can go on forever but we all know the Yzerman lore. I am willing to bet that these guys out of respect didn't want to show up Yzerman, show up is a bad term but you get the point I hope. No one forced Yzerman to walk away last summer, he walked on his own, and he has said that from the start. I guarantee you if Yzerman had walked up to Holland and said I have another cup run in me, he would have worn the winged wheel again. However he couldn't he wasn't the same player and he told Mitch Albom that much. I would quote it for you but the book is at home and I am at work.

I think he puts Z on the first line, he is going to be the heir apparent to Yzerman. Plus the wings have said that Grigs will be with Dats to start the season, you don't really want him on the first line, yet. So ... Sammy (not my first choice but he deserves it) Zetterberg Holmstrom Grigorenko (the wings have said as much) Datsyuk Filpula (a role I think he shines in) Cleary Franzen Kopecky/Hudler ( I think Huds has earned it, not sure babs thinks so) Maltby Draper Drake Of course this is all subject to whether or not they pick up a top 6 forward or not. I think for the first couple of months you will see line one stay the same while line two shuffles Cleary & Huds in and out to find out who plays best with Datsyuk.

After having just finished reading "The Captain" I am pretty sure Stevie would have been an impeding factor on this team. He as much as said so in the book (well in the Detroit Free Press articles written that were in the book), and in the fact that he retired. He has been saying since the 02 cup run that he did not want to be a 6 minute a game guy. He wanted to be a top player out there and be productive, or he would retire. He felt like he couldn't be the player he wanted to be. Not saying he couldn't have helped, but he was not living up to his expectations and felt it was time to walk away. With his health and his age he wasn't the same player and he did not want to take the ice unless he could be the best. That is why he stayed so humble and why we all love him, he had great expectations for himself and everything he did, all the hard work, was all about reaching those goals. He can no longer play that way and stepped aside. Yzerman walking away allowed the following: Lids to show he is a great leader as well as player. Zetterberg to show he is a great player and leader. Datsyuk to step up and show he can play in the clutch. Franzen to get more ice time. Shanny to NY, which allowed more ice time for the youngsters. Babcock to make changes to his lineups without fear of upsetting a Detroit Icon and his fans. I miss the guy too, but he wasn't playing until he was 75, especially with those knees.

Every coach that sits behind the wings bench will be view with cynisism until they bring back stanley. That is the only reason. As wing rfans we expect nothing but the best, and anything less than the cup is the worst. That is just how we are.

So "The Captain" showed up on my door step yesterday and by the end of the day I had finished reading it. I am not trying to say that I am some special type of reader, especially considering the length of the book. But that was a great read, I had a hard time putting it down. Thanks for the recommendation. Now I am going to start Blood Feud.

Here you go check this bad boy out. Espn is running a uni watch on page 2 there are some funny looking jerseys, most of which I remember, but not this one Wow the Nords should have used this one

I thought it was because they were called Les Habitants in Canada as in the habitants of Montreal. But I may be wrong

That blue Jacket's logo looks like some one ate a bunch of blue, red, and white gummi bears and threw up on a jersey!

Which is why having it be enforcer vs defensive specialist would have made more sense. But if you had to choose between a 4th liner who gets pp time and shoot outs vs an enforcer, most people would take the enforcer because why waste a roster spot on a 4th liner for your pp. If he is a 4th liner by default he is not good enough to be on the pp, the shoot out is such an anomaly that some team could have a goalie who has crazy dekes and put him on the shoot out line up. The question is leading some one to answer one way. I think if you reword it the percentages would change.

I wouldn't be surprised if the wings logo didn't make it out of the first round. Not that I don't like it but it is very simplistic and plain, you know old school. All of those things are what make it great to me, but you have to think about who is voting. Are they voting on flashy logos like atlanta and the blue jackets or classic logos like the wings or habs. Edit: : Wow the new blue jacket logo is horrible!

Are you talking about the Charleston chiefs or the Storm?

That was my first thought when I read the question, if your fourth liners are options for you pp you either have an unbelievable team and need to cut some players to make cap or your team sucks!!!!!!!! And even if your team sucks your top 6 forwards should be your pp and maybe a third liner because a forward plays point on one of your units. Other than that there is no way a 3rd or 4th line guy ends up on your pp.

I see your point I guess were I lost myself was thinking he has been consistently better, poor wording on my part.

I think he has tried to throw Russia out there to force/threaten teams to sign him. In his mind he probably was looking at NYI and DET as needing him and he thought he could cash in on their needs, just speculating here! It is not like he is a 3rd or 4th line forward and there are a lot of guys out there like him. He is a 2nd (some teams not Det) or 3rd Dman and he feels there should be a lot of demand for him. However I think he has screwed himself with this idle threat. He will be left to tuck his tail and go back to Kenny saying I will take less, or go to Russia, which isn't the same as playing in the NHL. Amazing the effect pricing yourself out of a market can have.

My point in bringing up consistency and the point per game thing is not that I do not know the meaning of the word rather I misunderstand your use of it. Jagr has consistently put up more points than Fedorov and had more points per game than feds, yet some how Jagr is the more inconsistent player. Like I said before to me these two are the same player, with feds just being more willing/better at defense. I think Forsberg is better than both, Hasek is #2 and Lids without a doubt would be my #1 pick. You have to wonder if the guys from the Dominant Russian world teams would have been able to play in the NHL how this list would have changed.

Let it be known I am not a fan of either of these players. They embody to me what is wrong with sports, athletes that think they can play on talent alone or think that they do not have to play D (Jagr) or that they can show up when they feel like it. That is why I like guys Yzerman, Lids, Sakic, etc.. Feds since 1996-1997 has broken the 70 point plateau once, 02-03 his last year with the wings. (97-98 doesn't count against him he only played 21 games) Jagr has not dipped below the 70 point mark since 1992 with a 69. The only reason Jagr stats look more inconsistent is because every once in a while the guy throws a 100+ pt season at you. Even when Jagr was in Washington, the team did next to nothing, he still was able to put up atleast 77 points in 75 games. Jagr averages well over a point per game, so your argument (not yelling argue, argument as in a statement) about point per game is confusing to me. They both joined the league in 90-91 and Feds was definitely the hotter starter. But other than that Jagr has consistently put up better numbers than feds. The argument of having Lemiuex with him is also a horrible excuse, granted having great players next to you is a help, but he has to be able to make a pass and put the puck in the back of the net. If he had hands of stone he wouldn't have been good enough to be on Lemiuex's line. I guess if the guy only had goals to his resume you could credit Mario, however Jagr also had 907 assists. Career Numbers just points and games played in only 63 more games Jagr scored 423 more pts. Jagr 1191 GP 1528 pts Feds 1128 GP 1105 pts Jagr is, was, and will go down as a better, more consistent offensive player than Feds. More all around, well that goes to Feds, because when he wants to he can play some mean D! Even Jagr on the caps put up better numbers than Feds on the wings in the same years, so are you telling me that the 01-02 wings were worse than the 01-02 caps. Besides to say that Feds has no supporting cast is a little bit of a stretch, I would argue that Columbus teams he has been on are on par with the Was teams Jagr was a part of.

Eva, usually I just read your posts and nod along in agreement, but when has Jagr ever been washed up. Towards the end of Wash and the start or NYR he may have been in a lull or a down time for his numbers but washed up, I am not so sure about that.

Did the wings get swept in the playoffs or lose 7-0 in one game and I missed it. It is not like the Duck swept the ice with the wings. It was a hard fought series and due to a number of factors the Ducks won, just like in the sharks series. It was a hard fought series and due to a number of factors the wings won. It seems to me like people on this board forget that the games were tightly played and barring a few bad calls (btw happens every game), inconsistent power play, and opportunities missed the wings could very well have won the series. Work ethic was not the problem, otherwise the team would have been buried in the first round by a hungry physical Calgary team.

Besides playing good-great d at times what is the difference between Jagr and Feds. Both are unbelievably gifted players with attitude issues. Just because one used to wear the winged wheel doesn't mean that there is a ton of difference between the two. Jagr's numbers will go down as some of the best numbers in the history of the game, we're talking top 50 offensive numbers of all time. His career has been more consistent than Feds. But back to the point: If I am starting a franchise and the task at hand is to pick one European player to build my team around without a doubt it is Lids, Hasek, Forsberg. In that order. Lids defense, consistency, overall play, and great leadership qualities make him a natural first selection. Hasek and Forsberg it is all about skill level. With lids it is all about the whole package.

ESPN link Saw this on Yahoo as well, I had no idea they were selling the lightning, I thought the club was in an alright financial situation.

I understand that Cams got under paid and so did Avery but how is it that Avery got more of the proverbial shaft than Cammalleri. Avery at most deserved 2.5 (IMHO) and Cammalleri as you stated should have got at least 4.5. My question (and I should have worded it better) was how did Avery get robbed more than Cammalleri.

Tverdosky played in my now home town of Manchester NH last year, with the Monarchs, LA has some pretty decent young prospects at D. No one that looks like a future Norris winner but solid young defenseman. Oleg was on the top pairing and looked as SSSSSSSLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWW as hell. He was a food presence and I am sure helped out in the locker room, but most of the time he looked out of place. I think LA will be more than happy to be rid of his contract.