Opie

I must be misremembering because I almost certainly remember Hudler Flip being third liners in the 08 run.

Not to bring another sport into this thread but.... If the Red Sox did not beat the Yankees to win the World Series it would not have been nearly as sweet, that wasn't just the icing on the cake though. To a lot of Sox fans, myself included, not beating the Yankees to get there would have actually cheapened the Championship. Sure it would have been nice to win after 86 years, but not beating the Yankees to do it makes it tough to swallow, as all you would hear from Yanks fans is "Well yeah you could win it in a year you didn't have to face the Yankees." Just saying!

2.9 over two years for Lebda, WOW just WOW! D-men are making out like Bandits these last couple of off seasons!

Spot on post if it were 1997, or if this weren't the Wings. A better part of the league and especially the Wings have started using the third line as a secondary scoring line, remember Hudler Flip Sammy was the third line in Det for a wfew years, in fact up until last year most of Hudler and Flip's minutes were logged on the third line. Modano is a much better defensive forward than Hudler and if Hudler can be a third line player in Det I see no reason why Modano could not be. IMO

WOW 6 year deal, WOW! I guess that answers my questions, he won't likely be back! From Pres trophy goalie to KHL in one off season!

What does the UFA goalie class look like next year? Would one year really create that much more interest in Nabby?

Again the hope is Abby can step up and fill the third line role, where as Modano's skill and even last season's stats show he can fill the third line role. Remember this time last offseason when Helm, Abby etc where going to replace the scoring lost by Hossa, Hudler, and Sammy. How did that work out, banking on unknowns to provide what was lost? This is the Detroit Red Wings, hoping on making the playoffs is not how things are done. Hoping Abby can all of the sudden become a scorer at the NHL level is not what the Wings are in the Business of doing. Modano is still a .5 ppg player, Abby is not.

You asked how successful the approach had been, read your post I quoted, I bolded it for you in that one, so I am not sure how it is related I just know I responded to your question. Cleary, Homer, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Flip, Sammy etc.. had a lot to do with the Wings winning, Dallas Drake for one was a beast in the last cup run and that will not show up in any stats you can drag up, Ozzie won a game or two as well, so to say it was only those three is BUNK! In this NHL depth is key, ask the Hawks, their depth was massive in winning the cup this year, the Pens didn't win because of only Crosby, Malkin, and Gonchar, they again had a lot of depth.

I am sorry I read the bolded part and forgot everything else you said, how successful has it been? Where should I start, the last four years alone include 1 WCF, 2 SCF, 1 SC, and beyond that one of the most successful franchises in the history of the modern sports era. That is how successful it has been. Players are willing to come to, or stay in Detroit for less money than they would anywhere else. This is the best franchise in sports for the last 20 years, 4 cups. Again Quincey does not crack the top 4 in Detroit, and as a bottom pairing guy seeing 10-15 minutes a night as opposed to the 20 he saw in LA or COL his numbers drop dramatically. When Lids retires, Holland signs another top 2 D-man, which Quincey is not, thus moving him down the list, he does not have the physical side to replace a Kronwall or Stuart. Maybe he could replace Ralf, but that would be a weak top 2, and the PP would suffer IMO.

Ahh but Hnidy as the 6th, wouldn't be an enforcer, but would be a tough SOB back there!

You're right, but what about next years UFA class, does he have a better shot than any one in that class, better shot than Mursak? You continue to ignore the prospects behind him that I keep bringing up and instead focus on Modano, this year it is Modano he is competing with, next year it is some one else. If the Wings brass thought he was as valuable as you did they would not be looking to add Modano at the expense of him, if it is even him they lose!

I am sorry how many cups did Quincey help the Wings win? Cheli was a mentor as well as D-man. And what exactly did the Wings lose in Quincey? The Wings top 4 is solid, Quincey breaking into it would have taken an act of congress or a complete falling apart by Stuart or Kronwall. Then look at his salary, how would the Wings have kept him with out sacrificing depth. In order to keep Quincey the Wings would have to lose Kronwall or Flip. Besides IF Modano is signed the Wings could easily trade the very affordable contract that they just gave Miller. Ritola could be the scratch, as Meech could also be traded. And how do you know it is 5+ years of Ritola, bigger names have hit the NHL and busted, lesser names have hit the NHL and been huge stars, the odds are Ritola is some where in between and is an ok to decent 3rd liner, which in a year the Wings will have an abundance of that. So Modano this year, Mursak next year, Tatar the year after, still with Abby, and Helm and you also want to keep Eaves and Miller, Plus Cleary, Bert, that is an awful lot of 3rd 4th line guys for him to compete with. Maybe just maybe the Wings front office knows more about the situation than either or I, maybe just maybe. And it is not that I want 1 year of Modano over 5 years of Ritola, it is that I want the proven over the crapshoot. Ritola may not even be in the league in 5 years.

Eaves is yet to sign his offer, which was given to him long before Modano was anywhere near a reality, he has his offer, if he wanted to be here he would be. This is not a case of Holland leaving Eaves out in the wind, Eaves knows what the Wings offer is and if he had signed it, the Wings would have less cap space to throw at Modano. Eaves was a Wing for less than a year, what makes you think he will stay here for years, or even be able to crack the roster in years to come?

The same way Quincey or Meech did, be the scratch, play here or there and prove you can make it. OR Find a roster you are good enough to crack now! I don't see him getting claimed off of waivers, or getting an offer sheet any time soon. When people talk about Wings' prospect Ritola is not the first name they say, he not only has to be better than Modano (IF he is signed) he would have to be better than Mursak next year and potentially better than Tatar (different role I know). This isn't the St. Louis Blues where just because you were decent at the AHL level you get a shot, this is the Red Wings where prospects (unless extremely gifted) over ripen in the AHL, and if they are lucky crack the roster. If given the chance to sign a proven commodity or promote and unknown, I take the known commodity every day of the week.

Way to look at only one part of my post and focus on it, I also said that Modano is a .5 ppg player, my point in the less of a gamble statement is that what has Ritola proven he can do? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Modano is a proven defensively responsible forward who at his advanced age is still a .5 ppg. He is a pro athlete, did any question if Neidermayer would have the mindset to play, or Lids the numerous years he has supposedly thought about retiring. Lids was either retiring or signing with the Wings, because he was unsure do you question his dedication to this team? Eaves wasn't even a wing for a whole season, yeah lets sign him for a long term deal for his loyalty? /sarcasm! Please quote Holland where he said what the Wings shortcomings were, not what he said he would look into, or try to address. A quote where he said the Wings need X, or the Wings have a shortcoming at X. Everyone keeps saying Holland himself said the Wings need an enforcer, and all I saw was that he said he would like to get tougher, the same thing he says each and every offseason. EDIT: And they could still add a Shane Hnidy to the team whom made 750k last season if I am not mistaken.

Umm then Jay McKee should be the guy that would actually make you feel more confident in that gaping hole. I still would prefer Hnidy over McKee but either would be better than Janik or Kindl IMO. OH BTW I say that because McKee is a d-man.

This isn't a team with no prospects in the system. Eaves is not a long term Wing, Tatar will be ready next season and Mursak just to name a few, what do you do then. Eaves and Miller, and Modano for that matter, are not going to be long term wings. Nothing says Ritola is gone but if he is how is he any less of a gamble than Modano on the third line. Because Ritola has proven what in the NHL? Modano is still a .5 ppg player. Forward depth is a good thing, very good thing in today's NHL. I agree 1.5 is a lot for Modano, but what are the odds he produces more than or the same as Bert?

UK do you know what I read from your posts right now!

I put 40-50 because I think there will be an adjustment to the size of the ice surface. I also think Hudler will feel a need to prove himself, to prove that he is still a Red Wing. Not saying I feel he does, because I have no problem with him spending the year in the KHL, it was the only way he was not wearing another uni in the NHL. I don't think he will jump right in and start scoring tons. He will have new linemates which also takes an adjustment period. I think next year is the year he puts up his best season in the NHL. EDIT: Also the Wings are not the same team that he put up 57 points on, he will be relied on, counted on to score. Dan CLeary is not what he was 2 seasons ago (injuries or whatever facts are facts) Flip is better but I don't think they will be on the same line, though I think they should.

I would without a doubt pay the price to get Doughty in Detroit, it would have to be a massive offer sheet and the picks are meaningless in Det anyways!

Probably the top guy on my list of wants for the D in Det.

Puck Daddy has a really nice blog with some blurbs from Daneyko.

STL has a decent of young players, adding a high valued prospect in net should help, I think they need to stop signing Tkachuk and Kariya type players and let the youngsters develop, it worked for Pitt and Chi. I still don't see them as a threat in the Central, but they are getting better year by year. EDIT: Oshie is a beast and will be a very good to great player in a few years! Thought I would add that!

I feel bad for Stan Bowman, none of this was his doing and instead of being able to be a real GM and make moves to sign guys he wants/needs. He has to find away to get his team out from under ridiculous and stupid contracts, that some one else who couldn't even file paper work on time created. I mean he knew what he was getting into when he signed on the dotted line,and it is hard to feel bad for a guy that just hoisted the cup, but his 4th best D-man and 3rd best Netminder eat up the most money at both of their positions. They do still have a great top 2 d-men and top 4 forwards, but that hardly makes a team and he still needs to sign his Cup winning goalie! Ouch!

I wouldn't classify it as a mistake, one he could get return on and the other no one would have claimed off of waivers. I think it was more of a favor to Quincey, to give him a chance to use his recent(at the time) post season success and get some playing time. Both were slotted to be the 7th d-man in Det, Quincey was going to get serious minutes in LA that he would not have gotten in Det until about 5 other guys retired.