Opie

EVA, many reporters were making a Case for Jimmy to be mentioned in the Hart trophy race, btw any more specifics on those goals, like oh I don't know game, score when it happened? Or are you still going to post generic statements about bad goals he gave up, but not ever point to an actual goal? I will give you the Kronner one, but then again I said he let in a bad goal or two in a game. YOu point to one specific hoping we will miss the rest of your post which is so generic I am not sure if you are even talking about goals he gave up this year. And to consider AHL experience as the same as NHL experience, like when you said: Again more generics. give me a name of a rookie goalie who was much better for his team that had so much less pro experience. Listen Tukka Rask was the best Rookie netminder this year, Howard was second. Howard was the 5th best goaltender in the NHL, I am so sorry if that does not meet your expectations and if Ozzie riding the pine hurts. I want him to hit the next century mark in wins, more so I want him to do it in a Wings jersey. Babs did not see playing a rusty Ozzie as an option, that decision got the team into the playoffs, that is a fact. Your opinion is that Ozzie could have done it too, but there are no facts and no evidence (despite all you make up) to prove that point. Ozzie's last two regular seasons he has look a lot like another Det player, well former. Now he is a Boston Celtic, and Rasheed Wallace plays like crap in the regular season, turns it on for the post season. But that is ok for a guy who comes in off of the bench to give a guy a breather once in a while, not to play nightly. Say what you want but he stat (actual, not yours) say Ozzie has been poop in the regular season recently. Howard was hot, Ozzie was cold. People can say Babs hates Ozzie, Ozzie would have won the cup, but all of that is conjecture and all we know for a fact is that Howard was HOT, Babs rode him all the way to the second round. IN which he lost 4-3,4-3,4-3, 2-1. Not a single game had an empty netter, Howard whether or not you like the way he did it, kept the Wings in all games, but I would say game 3(TY SWF) he blew the Wings momentum. That one I will put on Howie, the rest of the games, are you ready for this: THE TEAM LOST!

And fans since 195 freakin' 9 will be a fan in 20 friggin 12 that is the point, the league is not trying to keep old fans, it is trying to get new fans. Sure most people watch college football, however do you know the last time I watched a college football game in its entirety, yes football is the big winner that day, but there is plenty of room for other sports on that day. The NHL can not compete with football on the pro of college level yet (sure I may be delusional with the yet), therefore they try to grab the non college football fans on that day or the fans that are tired of no definite Winner. BTW before the Pens were announced for their second WC how many people complained about the day of the WC? I don't remember anyone complaining about the day the Wings played, no one said "aw crap all of those potential Wings/ NHL fans will be watching college football." What you left out electrophile is how big of a NCAA Football fan your dad is, if bowl games (which are not his team) mean more than a hockey game (which is not his team) to him, one may think he is more of a bowl game fan than a Hockey fan. Not saying it is true just making an observation on your statement I do not know your father nor am I pretending to know what he likes. I will watch it because I think the outdoor game is a truly unique experience and no matter who is playing I will watch, because the game is an oddity, I can not watch it next week, however College bowl games are on forever and lead to NO CONCLUSION! Edit: by forever I meant the season ends in Nov, Bowls start 3 - 4 weeks later, and this year there will be a total of 35 bowl games played in 3 weeks, there are more bowl games than NFL playoff games, and they lead to no conclusion. There is no consensus Champion and that fact leaves the NCAA vulnerable right now, many people are very upset with the Bowl situation and many long time fans are disappointed and that makes this the best time to try and take some of their fans. Even if they only become casual fans. The NHL can not rest on its laurels and say, well that day belongs to college football, and Sundays are NFL, that leaves them no chance to showcase.

Thanks SWF Hadn't had coffee yet!

Eva please explain which goals would have been stopped by most goalies? I can count 1-2 a game, with 2 being a rarity. Are you gonna blame him for goal mouth scrambles, deflections off d-men , d-men stick breaking, 5-3's, please be more specific, because as it is right now you have made accusations about Howard for every loss. However: When asked about it after the games you shut down once people starting pointing out that most of the goals a game were not his fault, and even pointed out that most of the back breaking goals were not his fault, especially during a 5-3 or a 3-1 break away. But you continue to make these accusations without backing them up, you are good at what you do. Accusations with no support, and long ass posts with nothing really to say except some weird stats you made up. Edit: for clarification: He gave up 0 bad goals in games 4 and 5! the only game I (personally) would hang on Howie would be game 2. He looked shell shocked and fatigued. The rest of the series he looked very good, especially in games 4 & 5. More Edit: Those of you saying Nabby out played him do you remember some of the soft goals the wings scored on him? Homer with a wrist shot from 60 feet, I mean come on, Homer is the best at what he does, no one ever claimed his wrister was one of the best in the game, on the team, or even the best one taken at Nabby that game. IMPORTNAT EDIT: Read SWF's post, his corrections make my post obsolete!

Did Mindfly just say the Wings played Great D in front of Howard? ahahahahhahahahahahahaha good thing I didn't have a sip of coffee in my mouth. Oh and SWF Eva will never get over the Butthurt of Ozzie going to the pine. So two of those three posters are not worth responding to in this topic. And for any one to say the Wings were dominated in any category in a series that the 4 wins SJ did get were by 1 goal. The only domination shown in that series was SJ pp over DET pk, and game 4. Man, I always do this, I tell myself I will stay away or just read in the off season, and then I go and get involved! D'OH

How many of the 26 teams that have not had a WC deserve one, how many of their owners use the team to make money only, how many of those teams are in desperate need of a sale or move, and most importantly how many of them can have ice outdoors on NYD? You can't have FLA v TBL or LAK v ANA or DAL v PHO. If you can't host the WC, imo, you can't be in it. Sorry that is the way I think. Opie's one size solution fits all problems: SCF rematch every New Years Day, you want a WC, get to the SCF. That still doesn't solve the problem of LAK v TBL. The world is not fair, not even close, not every one gets the same opportunities in life. Reward teams that deserve it, Pitt was almost sold, they dug their way back, say what you want about draft choices, but how come no one else with high draft picks can reclaim the cup. Pho, Edm, Fla.. I could go on but you get the point, Fla has had more high draft choices in the past few years than Pitt did to rebuild. That franchise should be rewarded, I also think that teams like Det, Van, SJ etc.. should be rewarded for their continued excellence, but marketing Det's excellence isn't easy. It began too long ago and no one wants to root for the constant winner unless: 1. It was their team to begin with, before all of the winning. 2. They are a bandwagon fan. The NHL needs to be able to support itself, right now three teams are looking to sell, two of which made the playoffs, one of which could barely give tickets away in the regular season. That same club had away fans dressed in white to blend into the white out, I saw a lot of white Winged Wheel jerseys and that was just what I saw on TV. The WC is the most profitable and most marketable game of the regular season, it has to be handed out as a reward, not just because you are a part of the league. Does this feed into the Crosby- Bettman tinfoil hat crowd, unfortunately yes very much so, in fact it even looks suspicious, as I said though, as a Wings fan I am instantly Jealous. Sidenote: I love this board for all of it predictability, if this were to be Det v Was not a god damn one of you would feel bad for the other 26 teams, you use that "empathy" to mask the fact you are just pissed it is the Pens. Boston and Det (mon if you include Heritage game) can have second WC's but not Pitt?? HUH? And Pit Was is not quality hockey? Your arguments are falling apart in front of you puckloo.

To repeat the best answer to this post so far: Ratings Gold!! The NHL has a smaller fan base than the NBA, they need to draw fans to young superstar players. As a Wings Fan I am instantly jealous and say fine in 11-12 I want Wings v Toronto at the Big House. But the realist in me kicks in and realizes old glory (as in teams winning forever) does not bring in new fans, exposing teams that were bad and are now good, especially if that is because they have superstar talent is a smart Marketing move. Then you factor in that AO had issues with Malkin, does not appear to like Sidney Crosby, this has all the makings of a rivalry. The NHL would be stupid not to put these guys on display every chance they get. Listen when has national TV coverage ever been even, I can't remember a time in any sport where certain teams (based on winning, star players, whatever) didn't get the most coverage. Hell the NFL bases their Monday night lineup on how you finish the season ranked. Super bowl winner I believe gets 4 MNF, runner up gets 3, blah blah blah. That is based on winning, but then again NFL is one of the top 3 sports in the world (Formula one/racing, soccer/futbol), it can afford to put whomever it wants where and when it wants. The NHL on the other hand needs to spend time growing the sport. And I know all of the stats that say the league has grown a fan base over the past 6-7 years, sure but shining a dog turd doesn't change the fact that it is your least favorite part of your dog! And that the NHL is still the least popular Major sport in NA (well maybe not Canada, that may have been an exaggeration), not including MLS and Poker. (Poker was a joke)

NO he is a free agent with only one option which he has proven the past three years. I did not say they have same past with their teams I said they were in the same situation, meaning as far as free agency goes they are only playing for one team, or they are retiring. If you or I were to look at Teemu and Lids as Free agents, you and I would agree, correct?, that they both are going to play with their current team or retire right? Seeing as we are talking about free agency and players going to other destinations, I didn't think this explanation was necessary.

He puts Teemu as ANA or Retire but no mention of Lids, the situation being no different I think it is just another example of how little this guy knows about hockey. If it is on Eklund you might as well bet the house on it not happening! But then again listing a player and naming 5-6 teams isn't exactly a science, he probably just goes throw salary numbers and guesses based on where they fit.

Boston did come out today and say changes will happen, now would they be dumb enough to get rid of Lucic Probably not, but they are talking about a complete shift in playing style, Julien is rumored to be in trouble due to his lack of willingness to change his style up when it was apparent Phi had made necessary adjustments. Bruins are a team of bad decisions, but I would still be very surprised to see Lucic gone!

The one thing I would say is this family seems a little injury prone to me, and a touch on the overrated department as well. I think the whole family thing is blown out of proportion, I don't think they are close to the Millers or Hatchers. But hockey is a family environment, it has always supported families and usually once a hockey family always a hockey family.

As Police Chief Grady once said: Desperation is a stinky cologne! It is also a great motivator!

Get well soon!

The simple move if he does go is move Stuart and Lilja up one pairing Ralf Stuart Kronwall Lilja/UFA Ericsson/Kindl/Janik and Lilja/Ufa This way the Wings can spend moderately on the UFA on the D side and maybe a UFA with some scoring touch for the Offense. Bert was good this year, but I would really like to see a faster winger that has more ability to set up on that second line. Dats Mule Cleary Z Fil UFA Helm Abdelkader Eaves/Miller Draper Eaves/Miller UFA/or call up I assume Malts, Bert, and J-willy are gone. The offensive UFAs do not have to be high end talent, a 2-3 mil guy who can pot a couple. On D I would rather see the team go after a stay at home guy as well. The wings have ample offensive d-men they need a stay at home, but they will also be sorely lacking in the pp QB position if he does go, no one, not even Johnny Cash, walks the line like Lids!

Some of you forget, if Howie doesn't play this year the Wings are already golfing, they were golfing at seasons end. He flat out WON games for the Wings and being top 5 in the league should have earned him some wiggle room with fans right. Not on LGW, where half of the board thinks no matter what happens or whom is on the team the wings should go 98-0, and win every game by either a shut out or by allowing no more than 1 goal that better not be soft. And I thought pot messed up my short term memory, what drugs is this board doing. Whatever Ozzie may or may not have been in the past, this year he is a goalie who has not played in months. Hell hasn't played with any regularity since November, and you want to throw him in front of this offense (the Sharks) and behind this defense. The Red Wings are getting smoked on the face off Dot, last night was better, but not by much. They clear the zone about as well as I imagine a seal with a hockey stick would. How many times have the Wings tried to leave the zone and failed on multiple attempts, and I am talking ES here? How many odd man rushes have they given up? This is the 1 seed playing a 5 seed that just played a 7 game series. Psst, new break, the Wings should lose to the one seed. I as a fan say they will beat the one seed, however I have enough brain cells to realize it may not happen. Soft goals or not Howard has not lost a game by more than 1 goal this series. The all of the sudden "Anti-Howard"(really the Anti-Goalie in net for a loss) crowd that shows up whenever the Wings lose is in full effect and converting new recruits with every post. And for every soft goal in the series where you can say, "Oh Howie let in a Softie", I can say the team let him down for 2 goals. So which is worse a goalie that gave up 2 soft goals or a team that left their goalie out to try for 2 goals? I say they are just as bad as one another and it is the teams fault they are losing, actually I would blame McClellan and the Sharks, but that is just me. But the Team as a whole has crapped the bed in the 3rd period, including Howie this team has been out played in the final frame every game, and this was the first game they didn't give up a goal in the first 5. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe the Sharks are actually the better team and winning not because Howie is a horrible goalie and should be traded for that seal I mentioned above with all of that skill. Plus how many times have we seen Ozzie do the exact same thing, let up a game winner, that wasn't exactly the toughest goal of the goal scorers career. These things happen to goalies, hell Luongo got torched last playoffs, look at him this year.

Yeah from the replays the Shark's player look to have his stick on the ice, I am pretty sure Howard got hit by a teammates stick. Could be wrong though!

I guess I carried my thoughts of others posts into my reply to you, but I have a hard time in any way shape of form seeing either of the two Red Wings' netminders changing the outcome of the series. At this point in time it is up to the skaters. Last series was goalie vs goalie, this is pp vs pk and skaters vs skaters. Neither Nabby nor Howie have looked unbeatable, but neither (obviously Nabby) have cost their team the game!

Broken 16!!!!!! I could not agree more with you if I tried, I know I originally said the Wooden stick thing but you nailed the point right here: My first ever Red Wings game live and in person, 2002 Wings @ Bruins. 2 -2 in OT, Red Wings catch Bruins in a bad line change, Lids is about 10 feet higher than the dots, middle of the slot, goalie out of position, Easy snap shot for a OT winner, half the team was ready to celebrate from the bench, when all of the sudden ERRRRRRRRRRRR Lids stick breaks, now that Bad line change just turned into a 2 on 1, executed to a T, one timer goal, OT loss! I have seen it happen numerous times. I am not saying forwards should switch, because it doesn't happen to them as much, and with the new slashing rules you would want as fragile a stick as you could find. But the amount of decent scoring chances that turn into break-a-ways because of a busted stick is just absurd, d-men should have wooden sticks!

If he spent 4 mil on the house he has recoup that loss almost two fold in one year, Lids is not Giilbert Arenas and I have seen numerous Swedish articles (thanks to the translators on here) of what appears to be man who lives very modestly. So yeah I assumed a lot with Lids, but my point was that it is about 800 times easier for a man in his position to sell than some one like me in a $150000 loan on a house that I could now sell for about $110000. Even if he sells it for 2 Million, half of what he paid (guessing I understand that, just going with the proposed situation), He could play one year in Sweden and recoup the loss. Sure it is not all profit, if you look at it as a one transaction, he bought the house for x he sold it for y thus x-y = z, but in a situation where you make twice the cost of your house in a year, one would assume he owns it, athletes are more like corporations than they are like you and I. They have so much money and so many opportunities to increase their capital that, it is more like he spent x on his house, y on his cars, z on his pool thus x + y + Z = expenses and Salary as A, Endorsements as B thus A + B income then Income - Expenses = Net Worth Where as for me it is Paycheck - Bills = Damn where in the hell is my next paycheck! Now like you posted, and the numerous examples of Rich people blowing their wad on Drugs and Women they have lost their house, guys like Arenas, MC Hammer, etc.... the list goes on and on. I guess I assumed (I know my mistake right there) that Lids was a headier guy than that, and seeing as moving back to Sweden has always been the plan, I think the last thing he would want is a house in Michigan that he can not get rid off or that would cost him his move back. Short answer you are right, I made a lot of assumptions.

ohh yeah one more BUY WOODEN STICKS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOCKEY!

Jimmy was standing on his head when the score was 3-2, so saying he has never made the big timely The glove save on Malhotra, Thornton, the saves on the door step through the mad scrambles, if I remember correctly all happened while the Wings had the lead or were tied. I find it hilarious all of the glaring mistakes made in this game by Wings skaters and the way to fix it on here starts with the netminders. I have a couple of ideas: 1. Win face offs. 2. D-men stop making lazy backhanded no look passes through the middle of the D -zone. Ericsson, Stuart looking at you! 3. Stop taking penalties, 3 penalties last night were dives, 3 of 10 that is still a lot of crap to deal with, and Howard had his hand in that. 4. This may sound weird, but the Wings need to leave playing the body to the guys who can, it seems like everyone is going out of their way to hit someone. In the Bowman days there was no bigger sign of a loss to me than when players just started trying to hit. Even Dats last night was hitting when I thought he could have easily stolen the puck. Let the guys who can hit, hit. If there is no one to hit on a line, that is Babs fault. 5. STOP PAVELSKI! Jesus Christ this man is on fire right now, he plays with Clowe and Setiguchi, they are doing more damage than Thornton and Heatley. BTW Clowe's goal last night, WOW just wow, he showed unreal hands there, he is no Clement, Clement hands of Cement! Edit: TO clarify the hit comment, I don't want the whole team to stop hitting, but Flip, Dats, Z, Holmer(Mainly because of how out of position it usually takes him), Bert (if he is not going to really hit than don't bother), and Williams, guys like this have to spend time with Helm and Abdelkader or just stop hitting. Sure Z and D usually get back to position, but it is taking them out of their game imo!

A couple of things that differ from you(generic) and I compared to Lids: You and I don't really own our houses, the banks do, so if we want to sell we have a minimum number what you owe + Agent fees. You and I can not sell in this economy without losing money on our houses, therefore we can not sell. You and I have two options, Short sale and your credit gets hammered and you can not buy for 5 years. Or... Foreclosure, I can walk out from under my home and say screw you Indie Mac (actually the fiancee owns, I moved in) and our loan. There goes our credit and any chance of buying a home or anything for at least 7 years. Compared to Lids: Owns his house the old fashion way, he paid for it with some of the millions he has. He can sell for whatever damn price he wants, it is all profit except the Agent Fee. The house is for sale near Detroit and the greatest thing to come along since Yzerman just moved out of it. The Detroit thing may scare you, however the house is in probably the most beautiful part of the Metro region (it is still in the metro region right? Little Sweden?) and he probably sold it to Howard who will need a house now! Hell I would buy it from him and pay him extra to sign a huge wall in the middle of the damn thing.

WOW I never thought it would happen but you just came up with a reason for me to respect Lids less. If he pulled that crap that would be the one way I would lose respect for him. Now lets say he is really committed to spending time with his family, lest we forget that was what Neids was doing, (IMO and it is probably the minority seeing as he is a Duck.) this is not Peter Forsberg playing year round in Sweden and then making a comeback in March, or Mats Sundin waiting for the best and biggest offer. Then I have no problem with it, listen the man is 40, if he thinks he wants to go home to his family, is there 2 months and like the rest of us realizes his family is a big pain in his ass, then calls up Holland and says got room? I am ok with that. What I worry about is this is not Ana or Tor or Van, this is the Detroit Red Wings and if some one is not on the books, that money is spent on the best talent it can bring in (ok subjective, my opinion). If Lids were to try and do this, his money is spent and he would not be able to come back. Unless that is, if he and Holland planned it which brings me back to this: WOW I never thought it would happen but you just came up with a reason for me to respect Lids less.

I know the conversion from Soccer to Hockey is not an easy step but bare with me: I have a theory about bad refering in all sports, it has to do with the fact that these athletes seek out every physical, mental, and emotional means to make them better. During the season, after the season, and just before it starts. Being a pro athlete is a 24-7, 365 job of being the absolute best you can be. Being a ref means showing up, knowing the rules, and how to skate. Sure their is a little more to it than that but those are the basics correct. Well the refs are not making strides to improve themselves and can not be let go due to age. Players on the other hand have a very very limited career, age wise. The refs are catching up to their twilight years and the league has got to be about as young as it has been in a long time. Refs can not keep up with the game. But then the ice berg showed through: This weekend I am watching MLS (yeah I was THE guy) NE Revs verse FC Dallas the ref threw out 10 yellow cards and two red cards, for infractions his tubby ass was way too far a way to call. Being out of shape he was out of position the entire game, and after giving out cards for hard (not dirty) tackles, players who then got tackled with no call started getting chippy. So the ref decides to end the chippyness, two red cards boom for a relatively weak couple of fouls. Here is the problem, and this is were it relates to Hockey: He was out of position the whole game, making calls on what he thought he saw. His non calls were as infuriating to the players as his calls were. The players had no clue what was legit and what wasn't. Reffing in soccer has been light years worse than even the NBA, so this is really what we have to look forward to. Think about it you will see similarities, in the last world cup there was an official who was touted to be the most inconsistent and worse ref in the Eufa cup the year before, he did a couple of key games and messed them up badly, badly. Then he gets big games in the World cup. Really officiating that has proven to be even further below par than the accepted norm, and he gets the biggest games. IMO the bigger the game the more the Refs feel like they need to be a part of the outcome. So in my little theory you have, officials who cannot keep up with the speed and size of these athletes, are only getting older, and now have so many confusing rules that are open to interpretation, they worry about the league overturning their calls. Phantom calls followed by ridiculous no calls will be the norm, get used to, the game we love is being infested by referees. They were always a part of the game, now it seems like they are always a part of the outcome, good or bad for the Wings it is bad for the game. Opie off his soap box for now!

Opies © new wing lines: Z D MULE CLear Fil Bert Draper Helm Eaves/Williams (only when injured) Holmer Abdelkader Miller Lids Ralf Stuart Kronwall Ericsson Lilja Larsson McCollum (Ok ok, just kidding Howie and Ozzie)