Opie

The NHL refs have taken over LetsgoWings! Arghh run for the hills! LOL!

Is there anything that can be done? It is getting bad now, not only is a hook, slash, interference, hold different from game to game, but after watching last nights game it is end to end now. Any one else notice lately that more often than not in games it is the same official calling most of the penalties. Last night, that Lurch looking fool was calling the weakest of Penalties and the other guy was letting Playoff hockey go on! In the third period Sammy got called for the interference (which was borderline in my book, he had just passed the puck and was skating away from the play), then Dats gets picked off at the other end without touching the puck. No call, different official. The Neidermayer take down of Homer, I have no problem with that no call, as long as Ralf's holding is a no call. One end of the ice the whistle was faster than lightning and the other end it took forever for either goalie to get a call. Now I am not here to make this a Refs against Red Wings thread, I am a Wings fan so these moments stuck out in my head, but I know there were others that went against the Ducks and in the Wings favor. However IMO one end of the ice the players were playing more physical and more of a playoff brand of hockey. Maybe I am way off base here, but the Reffing in this league is getting bad, I said from the start I don't want the refs to either swallow their whistles nor call everything, I want them to be consistent. And that is the last thing I see them being. Note: I am not blaming the loss on Reffing, the Wings showed up to that game about 2.75 periods too late.

Nice, yet others continue to post slanderous remarks towards the Wings players pretending to be Wings fans, and no recourse. But hey don't complain about the ice at the Ponda, you may have your post deleted, hope you don't get suspended for it!

I see your point and that is why I brought up the fact that the ones that stick out in my mind are wings related, because I am a wings fan. But I also pointed out the Flip checking the Ducks D and that I was almost 100% positive that Duck guy would have 4 or 5 as well.

The lake across the street from my house has less water in it than the Ponda had on it's ice surface last night! Dude, I don't use my windshield wipers as often as they had to squeegee that ice! But this goes back to my 32 degree rule that if I ran the NHL I would have: If you can not have ice outside you can not have team inside!

I disagree had the Wings won or lost this game or even the series I would say this is a horribly officiated series, game 1 was bad, who won it? Game 2 horrible who won that game? Game 3 Horrible who won that game? Game 4 Horrible, horrible who won that game? Do I need to go on. My theory with Refs is they can not be blamed for a loss, unless they are literally interfering with the game. My favorite ref comment is when I say man barely even noticed the officials last night, do you know the last time I said that in a hockey game, cause I sure as hell don't! The C's got absolutely jobbed the other night in Orlando and still managed to win, the Magic got Jobbed last night in Boston, the C's managed a win. (to prove my objectivity on the matter) I don't want a set number of calls made, I want a hook to be a hook, I want interference called in the first second the way it is in the last second. To me that means if it is iffy in the first second or last second it is the same call. If you as a ref feel that at the 0:30 mark what you saw was a hook, then why 55 minutes later is it not a hook? If it is a call it is a call, I don't care if it is too many man on the ice with 1 minute left, you were dumb enough to step on the ice too soon, you cost the team the game, not the officials. Officials are supposed to call the game by the rule book, not their interpretation of the rule book, and I guess that is my biggest problem! But I agree 100% and I stated it before the series started if the Ducks were to win the series they would have to out heart the Wings for it, as there was no way out skilling them would work. Games 3 and 6 the Wings handed to the ducks and only played about 20 minutes combined between the games, to me that is why they are headed to game 7, but that doesn't mean I am happy with officiating. Hell I am not even saying if the Refs came out apologize for the game three no goal and handed the Wings that game and the series that I would be happy. I just want to know what in the f*** a hook is, what is interference, what is intent to injure. Based on the officials and to a larger extent the league (suspension doling or not doling) I have no idea what is going to be called. Great example the Flip interference no call, come on he checked the ducks player and neither of them were near the puck, it was a make up for a bad call. WHOA I have an even bigger problem with that, but that is another topic for another day! Edit: BTW if the ref can not keep up with the game, they shouldn't be reffing it that simple, if I can not keep up with my work guess what happens.

Are you people serious? I mean sure I wear my Jersey for every game but that is more tradition than superstition! Do any of you really believe that because a few people participated in a what if/Hypothetical thread that cause the Red Wings players to only go out and play the last 10 minutes of the game? Serioulsy? If that is what helps you sleep at night then blame every single Red Wing loss since 1985 on me, I always assume my team is going to win. I even speak as though they have already won the game, even if down by 2. I can be your sacrificial lamb and martyr:

Baseball put in a system where they use a "K-zone" type system and they give the Umps a 2 inch "room for error" in rating their officials. Get enough bad ratings you are warned, enough bad ratings and see you later. Watch the games on tape, if officials are really really bad and not adhering to the rule book rate them based on it. Give them a % of calls made that were right, not missed calls, just calls they made that were right or wrong. Give them some wiggle room, well his hand was on his shoulders, I guess I hold is a good call. Something along those lines. It just seems like some times the two officials reffing the same game are using two different rule books! I don't know I just find it frustrating as a fan not knowing what is and what isn't a penalty, and I find myself more and more yelling at the refs, seriously I was pissed after Sammy's penalty and Dats gets dropped in the corner only to not have it called. Again I am sure Duck guy can come on here and list 4 calls that went the other way I get that, but now it seems like winning a game is a crap shoot as to who is going to call what. Can Homer be in the crease, can Neids take him down, the puck loose in front of Ozzie whistle takes 3 seconds (guess at time) while a little while later the puck is literally bouncing around the crease (with Ozzie it was between his glove and his stick) only to leave the crease, but the whistle took all of a half second (guess at time). Why, the black pants really, is that it? The Wings may lose this series because the color of ANA hockey pants, seriously weakest excuse ever, and lets remember I didn't make it up, the league did!

Under the CBA 4 is impossible, therefore fail!

Chill out this is a hypothetical thread, Jesus! If you have superstitions stay the hell out of the thread, if you don't welcome to the thread. See the beauty of this is you can choose which threads to participate in, are you also going to tell me which Jersey to wear during games or when I can say shutout or not!

This is all that needed to be said, forget you ever read my post or any others and read this article and the quotes like this:

Watching Yzerman (80s) against the Leafs with my grandfather, he was a Habs fan and hated the Leafs, and I just seem to remember it being the Wings all the time. I just liked watching Yzerman play and after a while I got to spend the nights when the Wings played (side note my Grandfather made the best popcorn). Had to watch it on the French Channels because the lack of coverage, but due to the high Franco American population where I came from the french channels were a part of basic cable (only available at Grand father as my parents who lived 10 minutes away cable did go that far into the sticks). So I never was able to listen, don't speak french, I would just watch.

IF, the Wings make it, big IF still: Dats Z Homer/Cleary (maybe it is a slow change of Cleary but I see a lot of him there) will slow down Chi's first line. Much like the Ducks first line. They won't shut them down, they can hope to contain them. The Franzen Flip Hossa line will be key to this series, I am not sure Chi has a line that can either beat them when FFH are playing D (other than the first line) and I don't know that they have a line that can deal with the size and speed of FFH. Helm and Abdelkader will have to bring the same kind of energy that the energy guys from Chi will bring. D is no match at all, the Wings D is far better, team D, top 6 d-men, defense in detroit is far better than Chi. I see this as more difficult than the Ducks series, so 6 games (I called 5 in the Ducks series). The Chaotic style of the Hawks may cause troubles, and I think the Wings will get called for a lot of Penalties early in the series. They will play the way they have played Ana and will get called for it! Edit: You can call it bad Ju Ju but I always think my team is going to win the series (not that you are not rooting for the Wings, please don't take it that way), so to me it is just a mental exercise about the next round.

WOW I must have smoked some hella weed man, did I lose focus, is this not 2009 and is this team not in the midst of a Stanley cup Defense after being a top team in the league for 15 years in a row, that has had 4 years in a row of 100 point 50 win seasons, did they not just have a 112 point season 3rd in the league. I am sorry did I really get that stoned that I missed that big of chunk of time, I mean the post dates still seem correct but it could be a glitch on the DB server! But I guess if they are still operating the way they were before I got stoned, and now that because they suck and now some other team with a different theory has come in and dominated for more than 15 years winning 3 cups back to back to back (in order to best what the wings in the 90's did) and have won 5 (possibly 6 after this year to best the org the past 15 years) then I guess we should start questioning the way they bring players up. Whom usually stay up or should but can't due to cap. You know unlike MAF who was horrible and got sent down, mainly because he was brought up to early. {/sarcasm} Long Answer Look at it this way, how many Wing draft picks are still in the league, and how many of them, like Quincey went elsewhere and made a difference, how many of the Wings really low picks have turned out better than other teams high picks? Is it because they season their players and it is not too overwhelming for them? Is it because they are ready to deal with it? An 17 year old is destroying Juniors, has been the best player everywhere he has ever gone, say a Sidney Crosby, he is thrown in to the mix in the NHL and he struggles instead of being a one man show like Crosby was. He then becomes Dan Cleary. If not for Cleary's determination he is not in the League any more, he worked for what he has in Detroit! Now how many kids are iced before they are ready and it destroys their career? For most kids (that is what we are talking about after all) do not play anywhere near 82 games a season, let a lone at the pace and demands of the NHL level. Then the Europeans that come over have to deal with a new rink. Plus the kids in the Wings org earn their stripes and when they do get here they have earned and know they deserve to be here or they wouldn't. Derek Meech, do you think he is ready, how about Jonathon Ericsson. Baseed purely on how the team has used them, whom do you believe the team believes in more! Short Answer: Hell No! 4 cups just over 10 years! 4 50 win Seasons in a row! BTW the Wings kept Z and D in the AHL for how long? They know when their players are ready!

I tried to make this point earlier sandman, he could retire it would come off of the books. Then in about 6 months pull a neidermayer/forsberg and come back for a brand new 1 mil a year that is really a mil a year!

In five years when Huds is 30 and Mule is 35 are we then going to rehash this argument and only compare that post season's stats?? I mean hell playing Pro hockey for extra 5 years probably hasn't helped him at all. These who is the better wing is Stupid! I repeat my statement from the other Red Wing vs Red Wing thread: This is like saying who is the best Beastie Boy: MCA MOFOS! ohh sorry I meant Mike D, No I mean Ad Rock, No dats, No Mule, No Hudler, No Zetterberg, Nope it is Biz Markie, FTW!

This argument is stupid, first of all they are both Wings for life, have team first mentality. Dats always credits Z, as is his humble way, and Z always compliments Dats. The two are two of the top 3 defensive forwards in the game, top 5 all around players in the game, top 20 forwards in the game. The beauty of the two is they don't care who wins the Conn Smythe, Lady Bing, Selke, Pearson, or any other crap, they both care a lot more about who wins the cup and an individual can't do that. This argument is like who is the best Beastie Boy! MCA FTW mofos!! Maybe Ad Rock! No Way Mike D is the best! I mean Datsyuk, no wait Zetterberg!

However when the player retires his cap hit is out the window (because of signing age), so if Zetterberg retires, pulls a Forsberg and comes back for 1 mil a year it is a brand new 1 mil a year hit! The odds of Zetterberg, Hossa, Mule all playing to the age of 40 are very unlikely. But you are correct it is not a loophole!

I don't have a source, of course, however I believe Holland has publicly stated when Lids goes so does he! So that last part may be true and then Stevie Y or Jim Nill or some one else will have to deal with it. But with the strong loyalty tones running through this org I find it very hard to believe that Holland would leave the Wings in any kind of predicament on purpose. Not saying you insinuated that btw just saying!

Clutchngrab, what options do they have, waiver wire? Is someone gonna rush to grab Malts off the wire to save the Wings so they can have Hossa? Draper I think they still need and he has a lot to add. I think the only way is to wait Malts out a year, he signed the contract past 35 years of age, I think his B-day is 12/22/72, any one know for sure the date he signed? Closest I can find says 5/4/2007 which puts him at age 34??!

Sammy + Hudler + Chelios = 4 mil + Flip = Hossa (with some wiggle room) Ericsson, Helm, Leino, Abdelkader step in ZDH Hossa Helm Mule Cleary Draper Leino Malts Abdelkader Kopecky Lids & Ralf/Ericsson Ralf/Kronwall & Stuart Kronwall/Ericsson & Lilja/Kindl/Meech/Lebda whomever makes the most $en$e! Obviously I have no clue on this working $-wise because we are missing figures for some players. Sign Downey in case, hell even look for a vet with no cup to fill out the roster if they need to. But with those top 3 lines they will be in very very good shape, hell those top 2 put them in great shape! Don't forget the trade of Lilja (I would miss his PK and Block shots) could free up another 1.25 mil and with Ericsson coming along that would not be a bad move between he and Lebda (keep Meech) that is 2 mil off the books next season. While there are avenues that could make this work it would be both Ballsy on Hollands part and very very surprising to see Hossa leave that kind of loot behind. Either way I would blame neither if Hossa wore another jersey, and it would not surprise me one bit if Holland found a way to make this work!

I don't see Lilja back until next season so I don't think it is a problem, yet. When Ralf comes back I have very little doubt that you will see very little of Meech, and if Lilja came back I think Lebda grabs some pine and the Wings Go Lids Ericsson, Ralf Stuart, Kronwall Ericsson Lilja, all seeing about 20 minutes a piece, that would be some serious depth at the D position, realistically that could be next years D corps. Depending who is let go to make room for whom! Edit: I am an asshat!

Last week ESPN had Brown hitting Beachemin. Editors, anyone editors, fact checkers can I get a fact checker on aisle dumbass! Seriously I know our fever for instant information and instant gratification is high pitched, but come on, 5 minutes, 15 minutes on an editors desk and some one (assuming the sports editor knows jack s*** about hockey, big assumption) should have looked at that and said, he scored an own goal? That seemed like a deliberate shot on net the way you describe it, why would he take it on his own goalie? Did you mean in practice he scored the same way on his goalie? WTF does this mean?

Then you add to that depth the fact that the Wings are down: Best shot blocker (Lils) One of the best Face off men and PKers (draper) Then thrown in Helm no real notice of lack/lose of talent. Kopy goes down, in comes Abdelkader, no real notice of lack/lose of talent. (I really like Abdelkader and Helm, like the energy they bring!) Ericsson, to me is the most impressive, I know it should be no surprise as Babs has been all about this guy, put you are talking top pairing minutes and responsibilities. It is one thing to step up and help out with 5-6th man minutes and responsibilities, but this guy is on the ice for many many important situations. His mustache could use a little thickening as it is probably worse than Tyler Kennedy's from Pittsburgh, but he will grow into that, and the Wings are not the best facial hair team in the league anyways!

Straight from the rule book: Italics: Cleary was there before Helm's shot, and never interferred with Hiller as Hiller never made an attempt to save Helm's shot. If you watch the video, Hiller stands up and leans on the crossbar, as if or maybe even because he tripped on Cleary. The difference is Hiller was not making a save, as such Cleary could not interfere with Hiller's ability to move freely in his crease, he stood up, there is no proof that if he moved side to side that Cleary's positioning or physical contact would have done anything. Hiller didn't attempt to move in his crease, had he maybe Cleary is in his way and a no goal, maybe he moves forward and to the side makes the save and Cleary never touches him. Bunch of maybes, but what we do have is the rule and the fact that Cleary in no way shape or form (physical presence or contact) interfered with Hiller's ability to move in the crease, because Hiller never moved during the play, he stood up after the goal, but not during. Bolded: If you are ok with the No goal you have to be ok with this one, as they are both based on the Refs view of what happened. 1 instance the ref could not see the puck, in another he thought Hiller could move. BTW, I don't think the gwg in game 3 was interference on Neids, that was the same type of play as Mule's goal in game 1, I have a problem with Getzlaf's (I believe) slash on Ozzie's arm.