Opie

I'm sorry what in the hell are you referencing as the tangent, are you referring to the OP or your first post. Either way the OP asked if what Mule was doing is special, no there have been plenty of late bloomers in the NHL, and he has done some special things, but in my opinion is not a special hockey player, what is your point? So you are saying that putting two seasons worth or work in which you pick which games to use and not use is the equivalent of a season, did you have Eva write that post for you. Show me ONE SEASON, not one season's equivalent of games, on season's worth of stats that make him special, one season's. Just one like Zach Parise's season, or dats fourth season or Hossa's fourth season, or anything remotely close to what Malkin did this year, go ahead I will wait.

One point I want to make clear: Do not want Tootoo on the team I root for. I may not be the biggest Downey fan(again spelling) but what he does is go out square up and fight. Tootoo may have had some good fights this year but last year and years before are marred with him punching with gloves on, sucker punches and the sort. Tootoo may be able to play the game better than Downey, I will take Downey's 5 minutes a night over Tootoo's questionable(as you put it) displays of complete and utter disrespect!

And your being an arrogant prick, now that we got the name calling out of the way, explain to me how it is that Tootoo knew they were going to fight, initiated the fight, had to be thinking about it ever since he got boarded, yet never thought to take the tape off, yet the instant the fight happens he remembers. Good thing he put the string on his other finger to remind him! Listen if Crosby can make the decision to remove his visor to get in a fight, in which Savard (one of my fav non wings) completely chickened out of, why can't Toots remember or think far enough in advance to take off his piece of tape, that was on one friggin finger. His whole hand wasn't wrapped, his finger was. He had a cut he wanted protected. Posters admitted Staubitz let him take the tape off, why then does he have to go all the way to center ice to do it? Why does it take him to the blue line to start to take the tape off? And if you are saying he didn't remember it until the Blue line then why in the hell was he skating that far to begin with? If he doesn't remember the tape why start with the back peddling, if he knew it was there why not remove it sooner, was he afraid he would get Tootoo-ed while taking the tape off? Great fight, mad points for eating some heavy punches, respect for being able to do what he does at the NHL level, but the guy stoops to many different levels to get his shots in. I wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to lure Staubitz in and sucker punch him in the midst of a stride, but to say that Staubitz isn't chasing him down is really funny to me. Watch Staubitz stride after him after they reach the blue line, sure it is when the TAPE finally comes off, but Staubitz still takes 2 full strides to get with in reaching distance of Tootoo nearly 20 seconds into the fight. I see it differently than you, I didn't attack you or your point of view, I expressed mine you challenged it and now I am defending. If I am stupid because I don't see what Tootoo did as Manning up, well then I guess I am stupid.

I just threw up a little in my mouth!

Please quote the post where I said anything even remotely close to him getting demolished 5 X's! All I said was he was running backwards from that fight, which he was, you say taking of tape the size of a ring takes 60 + feet even though you admit he initiated the fight. Well if he initiated the fight he had plenty of time to take off the tape, hell Crosby had time to take the f-ing visor off of his mask, I bet he could take tape off quicker too!

HAHAHA The dude has enough tape on his hands to cover a wedding band, he pulls up his hands to go, and backs all the way up to the blue line, then takes the tape off, while backing up to center ice. Staubs has to take full strides to catchup to him, if he wanted to take the tape off why not do it before the blue line? Why not do it at the dots, Staubs, as stated by shut out king, was willing to let him take it off. Plus the fight happened right after the drop of the puck, do you mean to tell me that Tootoo had no idea they were going to go at it, he didn't leave the bench hoping to see Staubitz, he couldn't have taken off the 1/4 inch by 1 inch piece of tape (exaggeration be careful) of his hands on the bench. His hand was so messed up that playing with out that MASSIVE piece of tape would have been impossible? Yet it takes him nearly 10 seconds to even start taking the tape off. His hands are up ready to fight, he nods at Staub, I am assuming because they agree to let him take it off, but either way he back peddled like a beast, moving across almost the entire offensive zone. You call it preparing for a fight I call it running scared!

When did Kocur skate backwards away from a fight all the way to center ice? If Kocur had a boo boo he fought, he never backed up 60 feet forcing the other fighter to take full strides to catch up to him to even put his hands on Kocur to start the fight.

I didn't say he couldn't fight at all, if his hands are hurt and he can't fight than don't, otherwise no excuses, throw knuckles and deal with it afterwards. Of course it doesn't sound chicken to you, you are looking at it through mustard yellow glasses, they had to get away from their teammates? Why no one else could skate, none of their teammates had the ability to move 5-10 feet or even 25 feet, what did some one take all of their skates? Staubitz chased him down to center ice, to the point where he was striding after him.

Staubitz had to chase him down, what clip were you watching. They started between the dots and ended up at center ice before they even touched each other. That is not backing off to take his tape off that was running scared, he wasn't unwrapping crap from his hands, he was s***ting his pants! Good try though! He can't fight, fine don't, whether he is hurt or not, you don't think you can throw, don't be an ass! Can't help but be an ass, get ready to throw! Who was it that fought with a broken nose last year for Chicago against Boston, only to have his nose rebroken, did he run half way across the rink, no they stood toe to toe and went at it. Tootoo is a sucker punching POS, nothing more nothing less, the only reason he is above Downie (note spelling) is because he doesn't use weapons other than his fist, meaning he doesn't attack people with his stick. He likes to punch with gloves on, hit people when they are not looking, all of that crap, but when he has to take tape off, WAIT HOLD THE FIGHT I HAVE A BOO BOO! Please dude, if you are going to defend your team's players (which is a good thing for a fan to do) at least pick one you can credibly defend! But you are right CONGRATS on standing up after eating those BOMBS!

I am praying like mad it is Boston Detroit, so I can go to the SCF. What a dream come true, the only way it could be better is if I was at the game the Wings clinched the cup in. But like you said that is a little ahead of ourselves, but I guarantee you a Det Bos/Mon SCF would quadruple the ratings Ana V. Ott got!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dude when he was skating away from him for the first couple of seconds he should have gotten "2 Minutes being a chicken sh!t" Seriously in UFC guys that do that get made fun of in the octagon while the fight is going on Stubs should have started taunting him by making running motions, that would have been hilarious. AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Priceless, thanks for the vid Supafly!

Congrats AO, this kid is fun to watch!!! BTW Mack Attack, one of the best offensive weapons in the game (Crosby) sure, I will give you that, most complete, meh not yet, lets see him play some PK in a pivotal game. Neither AO nor Crosby are complete players yet, but as with many athletes or their caliber if you can focus and learn other aspects. They will be complete players eventually, but for right now they are just the two most dangerous offensive weapons in the game. And I love me some Hank and Dats, they are better complete players, but you can not deny the talent these two very young kids have. I would love to watch AO on Dats wing every night, oh god the beauty of that!!

Do any of the season's awards go march to march? I never said he wasn't going to be special or that you couldn't call him whatever the hell you want. In my opinion, he is not special. A special hockey player is some one like Dats, Hossa, Malkin, AO etc.. Does Mule do some things that are special, sure. Some one made the Penner comparison, if Mule gets paid next year and becomes Penner will you stand by your claim he is Special? If he turns out to be an amazing all world talent great, I never said he couldn't, all I am saying is that one year does not make him special, hence the Jim Carey reference. My definition of a special hockey player is different than yours. Look at my post on page 1, look at he things Dats and Hossa did in their first for years, those are special players. Mule is a .5ppg player, this year he has increased that to .8. Again he is improving and could become a great player, but he is going to be 30 soon, athletes start to decline in their early-mid 30's, that is why age with Mule matters. Some key points I have made so far: - Mule has played one season over 72 games, Hossa has never played less than 80. - Mule after 4 years is a .5 ppg player, Dats after 4 years was .84, and Hossa was .75, Zetterberg was .85, -In Dats 4th year he hit 87 points, and people on here thought he was going to be a bust and that he was getting over paid, lets not change our definition of Special because we like Mule's size. (not you NN but you get the point) Mules 4th year he could if he gets hot reach 60 pts, but he would need 12 points in 11 games. Not impossible by any means but 60 points, Malkin already has 102 this year, note: Malkin is special! - Zach Parise is a .76 PPG player in the same span as Mule. This year alone Parise has 44 goals and 41 assists for 85 points and besides his rookie campaign has never tallied less than 60 points. -Was Sammy's 05-06 season special? 71 games 23 goals 22 assists 45 points, Mule last year in 72 games had very similar numbers, and Sammy gets about the same numbers every year. Again, I am not saying he is not good, actually in this thread I have listed many things I think he does well, however imo he is not yet a special hockey player YET. He does a few things that are special, but overall he is a very good NHL talent and should continue to get better the next 3-5 year. Hope he is a wing when he becomes special.

All great signs for him in the future, his hands are what impress me for such a big forward, soft hands, and great patience around the net. The goal the other night where he waited the goaltender out to the other side of the net, thing of beauty. He may someday be a very special great player, maybe he and Dats can build on the relationship they seemed to have going. I consider Hossa out of reach $$ wise (although I hold out hope because I never thought he would be here to begin with) and Mule (3.5 discount) Sammy( 1.5 Discount) and Huds (2.5 not a discount today, but in the future well worth the price) will take the 7.5 mil that would go to Hossa. To the last word in your post: Playoffs Calgary Flames, that is all that needs be said, clutch is a very good word!!

Good for Ozzie hopefully he gets his groove back and my favorite team and my fantasy team enjoy the benefits!!!

Sorry all apologies to Mrs. Mule!! LOL

My intent for putting that in your post was it didn't really go in my post, that is why I bolded it, if I was trying to be clever and make it look like you said it, I wouldn't have made it stand out, I would have written in plain text. Often times on these boards it happens, it is because my comment went directly to what you were saying! I will make it more obvious now, but I am not complaining, who is complaining, all I said is that he is not special and then I backed it up, I even said he could be special, but at the current date, in my opinion he is not. I even went so far as to say you could call him whatever you want but my opinion is that he is not special.

HERE HERE!!!! That is all I am asking from him, however he is not special yet.

No I hope he stays around, because Hossa (I would love to keep around)will cost too much and Mule will be a valuable asset to have that could turn into a special player, what I am saying is that he is not special Currently!!!!!! So Mule won the cup all by himself, the fact that 3 of his goals were direct results of his linemates forechecking doesn't impact that, or that at least 2 of his goals were power play deflections, not goals he created on his own? Let alone the fact that OZZIE not Mule was last years savior, doesn't enter your mind at all? The fact that Z not Mule was the Conn Smythe tells me with out Mule the Wings probably would have been OK! But we can not debate that, but to say the Wings would not have won with out Mule is a stretch to say the least. If Franzen was so imperative to the Wings winning the cup how many goals did he score in the SCF, guess what He got out scored in the SCF by Sammy, does that make Sammy a special player, hell Sammy did something that has never occurred in the SCF before? You have some very interesting revisionist history, I understand what he did last year, I also understand that when the playoff ended he was But if you want to call him special fine do so, I stated my opinion and backed it up with facts, just like you just did?

He broke out last season? when? did I miss it? Did he score 40 and I missed it, did he have 50 assists and I missed it, did he hit 80+ points and i missed it? What exactly did he do to break out? Last year in 72 games he scored 38 points, that is a break out year? 27 goals is impressive, but does that makes him a special player? Not in my book! It makes him a good player, but nothing about Franzen as of yet screams this dude is special.

I noticed that but wanted to make sure I made myself clear as I was posting last night with no idea that 1/8th of a post appeared!

Jim Carrey had one hell of a season once too, is he special, was he emerging? So Mule is in the company of Dats and Hossa. Well lets look at that statement shall we? Career stats Mule: gp281 g78 a54 pts132 pim164 under .5 ppg Hossa gp766 g334 a376 pts710 pim454 Almost ppg, allstar, top 20 player in the game and in his first 4 years was 0.75 ppg and was in his early 20's HAS NEVER PLAYED LESS THAN 80 games!!! Datsyuk gp515 g167 a345 pts512 pims137 Barely under a ppg, lady bing winner, selke winner, all star, top 20 player in the game, first four years was a .84ppg player and was in his early-mid 20's Datsyuk in his fourth year hit 87 points, the following year hit 87 points, the next year hit 97, and this year could hit 100. AS I said, a small sampling does not make him special, he is above average and is showing signs that he could be special. How many times has Hossa been near the top of the scoring leaders? How many times has mule? Mule is one of 2 players on that top scorers list (he is tied for 11th, 20 people deep on that list) with less than 20 assists. You want to see special, look at Dats, Look at Hossa, look at Malkin, look at AO those are special players, Mule is having a career year by a long shot at the age of 29 to be 30 next season. He is having a great year for him goal wise, however special would not be the word to describe him, one year wonder, mr inconsistency maybe, but if he has a great year next year then maybe we can look at it as he was injured a lot and that hampered his development, but come on, special 29 goals and 19 assists is not special. And what other players were called "Special" on here that you don't think deserve it, Hossa? Zetterberg? Datsyuk? Lids? Ralf? Those (IMO) are the special players on this team. Why you may ask, because the are unique talents in the league today.

I will get castrated for this answer but NO! No he is not special, and he is not a force to be reckoned with, YET! He is a talented player, and shows moments of unbelievable hands. He also disappears for months at a time, either injury or slump. I have said this on this board many times, taking one half of one season and adding to one half of another season, plus one playoff streak does not make for a great season and playoff run. He is a 29 year old player who didn't break into the NHL until the age of 26, he is a late developer. He is big, he has shown great hands, he has also shown to be very inconsistent. He also is more often than not on a line with a top 20 player in the league. Now last year he flip and sammy were one of the Wings best lines in the post season, but again one sample of the season doesn't make him special. Lots of people like to talk about mule like he is a ppg player, he is not. This is the closest he has ever been, but it is 48 points in 60 games, .8 ppg. (SO FAR) Besides his first campaign of 80 games his other three seasons have been 69,72, 71 (if he finishes the rest of the season). If he stays at the same pace he could hit 56 points, 8 points next 11 games. Don't get me wrong he has shown flashes of brilliance, but what makes him special? What has he emerged as? (Please don't say power forward or elite anything)

DOGGY & DATSYERBERGER I did not realize that I hit add reply for this first post, I know I was jumping around a lot, but what I meant that post to look like was the second time I posted it. Sorry if it seemed like I stated those sports were not done by athletes, my point was supposed to be they are athletes but do not play a sport. I now see why my point was not being understood!! THIS IS WHAT IS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TIME!

This! When was the last time a player was not only top 5 in scoring but a Selke and (to a lesser extend) a Bing finalist, and not a Hart Trophy contender?