Opie

I understand the term indefinite, but this as you said will probably turn into the end of his season (you said with Stars). With what has been said about the guy by players now, ot just media, who is going to pick him up, with the Broduer thing and now this. The league had to review Pronger's stomp and at first no suspension then 8 games, come on you don't see the double standard at all?

I am not defending the guy in the least, but I think the indefinite suspension was over the top when Pronger gets 8 for the stomp and it was his 7th career suspension, how many times has Avery been suspeded. Pronger has a history of dirty violent acts, was he suspended indefinitely, no 8 games why, because he is a star. Much the same reason Simon lost a season to almost the identical act as Pronger. I don't like the guy and wish he was suspended forever or banished to the KHL but this is not the offense to do that with. Edit: After thinking about it I guess the problem with my post is the word targeted, I should have said unfairly punished or overly punished.

I didn't respond to someone questioning why I thought this suspension was unfair/ they were unfairly watching him: Pronger gets 8 for trying to remove someone's leg (exaggeration I know) yet Avery (Whom I strongly detest) gets indefinite for what he said. This is like the NBA cracking down on KG being emotional in the game. After wagging his finger in the face of a point guard he was pressing on the way up the court, the PG could not get by Garnett, a 7' power forward. Jose Calderone got upset at KG and looked to the ref to make him stop, then the team called a t.o., Calderone went back to the ref to complain that Garnett was being unsportsmanlike and should have a technical foul. His commets on the ice are dumb but he is being targeted, if this was Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby, Pronger or someone of that stardom there is no way in hell they get suspended.

So you know for a fact that Lids, Z, and Holland sat down and Lids said no, or that the 7.8 is a cap hit and would actually make 6.7 for the remainder of Lids career, or that Lids didn't say hey you know what this guy is part of this teams future and future 'C' let him earn more than me? I ask because you seem pretty sure of your answer.

Ozzie letting Avery know what is what. The thing about Cheli having to kick him out really sends a message that this guy is an ass on or off of the ice! Didn't see this in the thread yet: linky majiggy OUCH!!!!!!!!!

Huge difference, Stuckey could be on the roster and never play more than 5 minutes and they can evaluate him, in Hockey especially on the Red Wings if you are on the active roster unless you are a fighter only you need to play at least 8-10 minutes and in Bball the coach can't put you in with a lead and take you out when behind. Two different sports and two completely different roster philosophies. That is like saying because Devin Hester was good at returning kicks and became a wide receiver that Leino should make the wings roster.

None taken that is why at the end I put that I didn't think what Avery did was abuse.

There is no proof that any of those players are an upgrade to Sammy, what you are suggesting is that they get rid of a proven 35+ point guy in the NHL for a player who could put up 60 points or could put up 4. If they knew Leino was an upgrade than maybe Sammy gets traded to make room for Cheli, otherwise he will probably be around because the wings and their org (you know the guys who see the players day in and day out) know what is an upgrade in the system to what they have. You are want them to upgrade to Leino or Helm, but as easily as it could be an upgrade it could be a downgrade. Now if a guy like Michael Ryder was kicking around in the system maybe you have an argument, but what is in the system is a bunch of unknowns, you want a team that is driven by a Stanley cup or bust mentality to wager on a couple of unknowns one who has exactly 0 minutes of NHL ice time. What is next you want Larsson in for Ozzie!!

Seriously NFL coaches, NCAA coaches? really you guys have never seen this in another sport? Baseball is about the only sport any more where a coach gets a benefit of the doubt but even then the brewers fired a coach and weeks later entered the playoffs.

Put a call into Child Services in your town or state and they will tell you that verbal abuse can actually be worse and have far more severe long term repercussions on a psyche! Not saying in this particular case but in general mental abuse is far more severe than physical (obviously not if the person is being beat to death) however I would hardly call what Avery did mental abuse.

And Sammy had 16 points in 22 games and the year before he had 11 points in 18. What is your point? Mule scores goals and Sammy gets assists, ok great point but dats gets way more assists than goals does that automatically make Z a better player?

Kobe tell me how my ass taste! BTW I think the difference is that Shaq did it in a underground rap club and not to the media.

To be truthful with the cap going down, logic (to me*) dictates that salaries signed this off season by a 40 point scorer will be less than last year. I think the Jeff Finger experiment will deter a lot of signings, and we are talking about a guy that bounced around the NHL and SEL and now has found a home in Detroit. It would not surprise me if knowing the situation in Det and knowing his coach respects him that Sammy signs for a slight increase in pay, I don't see him getting Flip money, so if factor in the lower cap I see him signing for about 1.5-2 mil. But again I am not Holland, Holland may see that 1.5 as a way to keep Hossa or Huds or Z or Mule. But I would be very surprised to see Sammy signed in Det for more than 2 mil. Somewhere else sure, but he seems to realize where he fits best. *at first that read like I was telling you what to think, not my intention!

Heaton with the game winner from just outside the face off Circle, good night ladies and gentlemen, it was good spending time with you!!!!

Yes but he had nearly 3 months between to rest and recover from whatever injuries, nagging or serious, between seasons. You can not take parts of one season add them to parts of another and get a whole season. The facts are: 1- He is 29 in 2 weeks in his prime. 2- He has never posted anything higher than 38 points in the NHL. 3- He gets injured often, not always serious but he is often injured. 4- He is streaky, good for a couple of months, so so for a couple of months good for a couple of months. 5- He was a force to be reckoned with in the post season, until getting injured, then he was a good player in the post season. Mule is not a Monster, Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Ovechkin these guys are monsters plus some others. People on here amuse me, Mule is a monster because of a couple of good stretches, Sammy is a suckbag because he is inconsistent. HUH Well why is Mule not a suckbag because he is inconsistent or Sammy a Monster because of his good stretches? OH that is right Mule isn't the whipping boy, sorry for the dumbass question.

I think you all are missing the point, the reason I think the OP is saying Conklin should start is that every year he has started the WC HIS TEAM HAS MADE THE SCF!!!!

This is nothing compared to what he has done, but I think the league is in a bit of a bind due to who the sloppy seconds was referenced to. If it is some woman in some city that no one knows than fine, they let it go. This is some one in the spot light who can cause a hell of a lot more negative press against the league than suspending Avery for his words would. Having said that, I don't think he should have been suspended for what he said, suspended for the Bruins fan thing yes, fans in the enemy barn are always going to jeer names they recognize, he has made sure everyone knows who he is, everyone. And as Jeter put it (at least that is the last person I saw say it) "The opposing fans only jeer you when you are doing something good." Unless you are Sean Avery and then it is because of your mouth. Having said that, a suspension was eminent from the dumb frenchman comment to Blake and cancer to the Broduer thing, the league has been unfairly watching him. There is the saying that no press is bad press, "at least it brings the sport into the papers" but I disagree, I have always thought that while a physical sport it was one of the most respectful sports. I have always and will always hate this guys antics, I think he is a very skilled player and if he focused as much on Hockey as he does himself he could have been a great player in this league, but he just can't help but do dumb s***. I know he thinks it is funny and just being himself, but being himself is being a dumbass on most occasions!

I agree wholeheartedly, passing to Hank is probably the smartest thing anyone on Hanks line can do. I love this quote, for all of you who think he shoots to much and only hits the crest, his sh% is up and his sh/g is down. And this quote is what many of us Sammy supporters have been saying for two years now:

I 100% agree, but the fight slappies don't agree with that, those of us that defend the Wings for the most part have been saying that exactly, that a fighter does not win nor lose you a game. EDIT: I am not saying a fight can't change the tone or the direction of a game, but so can't a shorty or a sick deke that leads to a beautiful goal.

You know that is what I was thinking all along, I guess I should fail Kronner and stop using logic, but then again what will happen to his fantasy team!! (the last part is an inside joke, if you don't get it oh well!)

Much like other players in the league can and do are two different things, how much time does Hossa play on the PK, can he do it yeah, Dats last year, Rafalski. These guys can all play the PK, but Babs has better options or more preferred options. Much like the PP with Stuart/ Cheli and Sammy. Can Stuart play the point, he sure has in the past, Babs prefers and alternate option. No one said (at least me) he is a top PK player on this team, but he is defensively responsible and can handle the duties. It is not like he is a player who flat out can not play it. He just is the 6th or 7th best option on historically one of the best PK teams.

WOW!! A 7 year deal for a guy who's career high is 38 points, which he didn't hit until age 28. WHOA that is long term in my mind way toooo long term. Not saying it couldn't happen but his career (injuries, late bloomer) doesn't scream "HEY OVER HERE SIGN ME LONG TERM" to me at least, but I in no way shape or form can do Hollands job! As far as Z, I would take that deal in a heartbeat, my only precaution would be his health as well, but he is a Conn Smythe the risk reward with him is a lot better looking one.

So he loses credit for being on the PP, yet Dats doesn't nor does Cleary, who by the way looked abysmal in Boston. Seriously in legit hockey terms not I see he is not "Busting it" or "He sucks how can you not see it" what is it that he does so horribly? I just don't see it, is he the second coming of Gretz, no he is Mikael Samuelsson, he is what he is, a 5-7 forward on a good team and a 3-5 forward on a bad team. He is right handed, which the wings have a lack of, he puts up 30+ points a year, he is defensively responsible, can play the PP point, can pk. Can he stick handle like Dats NO, can He score like Z NO, but who expects him to. Please put into words, hockey terms, what it is he does that is so wrong?

90% of the time, that is pretty far fetched, do you honestly think he would be playing if he was useless for 90% of the time. Did you really do the math to figure out that 90% of the time he is on the ice he is useless, did you look at every single second of every single game to see if he stopped an icing call, or prevented a break away or even if he was just covering his area in the defensive zone. NO you got caught up in the whipping boy phenomenon and instead of seeming like a flip flopper you are arguing that in your opinion he is useless 90% of the time without a single stitch or evidence all you have is what you feel. Because there is nothing out there to say he is useless 90% of the time. And the reason you find yourself saying he is bad more than you do good is because you are looking for his f*** ups, and not what he does good. Sorry you are right I did confuse you and what you were saying, sorry.

Dude, you and I have gone back and forth about Sammy but in this rendition I bring up a different point, completely unrelated to Sammy's play. Jeff Finger I know the salary cap last year went up and we will probably see a slight reduction in $ amounts due to the expected down turn it will take, but, Dude, some one gave Jeff Finger 3.5 mil. I'm just saying!