Opie

I'll believe it when I see it, it took the Red Sox 86 years to stop chasing after has beens who were once good. They were talking in the media last year that if they made a trade at the deadline Kessel was going no matter what. This is not the smartest Org in history. I am not saying it will happen but I wouldn't be surprised if it did!

Fine last year 73 11 29 40 21 6th overall forward on the team, 8th player points wise, higher than both Franzen and Flip. Your expectations are that he will be a great player, he is not he is a very solid NHLer nothing more nothing less. He is a top 6 forward that costs 1.2 mil. Find me a player in the league that does it at that cost and is not on their 1st NHL contract. Franzen is making 1.15, he has yet to have one season in which he has put up better numbers than Sammy's average season yet he is adorned the next big thing, yeah at almost ******* 30! Do you know what kind of year Sammy had the year he turned 29? 71 23 22 45 42 Again your expectations of the player are too high. Do you also takes points away from Z for being on the PP?, Flip? Kronwall? Lids? Pavel? need I keep going?

Here in lies the problem, your expectations, how can 24gp 5g 16a 21pts reflect negatively on ANYONE!!!!!!!! He is not only a top 6 forward on this team points wise he is 4th on the team in points OVERALL, where is the negative reflection in that!?!?!?!?!?

Then why ask if I was entertained with last nights game, it was a hockey game with all kinds of action it was just missing a fight, that shouldn't ruin the game or make it not entertaining. BTW Tr!PoD#19 Great add to the conversation, I am not sure I could have ever reached this level of understanding with out that very pertinent, poignant point!

Being in the building Saturday night, he is the fan favorite right now! Without a doubt, everyone I talked to in the Garden was all about this kid, Red Wing Jersey on or Bruins Jersey or even the one fan I talked to in a Preds jersey (he must have lost a bet)! The luuuuuuu cheer is contagious and any time he is near the puck the building takes a deep breath and is ready to explode, waiting for a check, fight, goal, or just great play. This is the type of excitement for a player not seen in these parts since Joe T. Not comparing the two, but this kid is destined for the 'C' and more in the city of Boston, IF he stays around!!!

Sure did, in fact I found the game I was at on Saturday to be entertaining to, it sucks they lost, but I find hockey in general entertaining, not just one aspect. I am a hockey fan, I like hockey fights, but they are a part of hockey, just like a sick deke is or a twisted wrister. Are you a hockey fan or a hockey fight fan?

As I tried to type in my first post and screwed up, the rant was not aimed at you, however the throngs of people who claimed the Wings can not win without an enforcer, the people who flipped a lid when Downey then Mac were waived. I don't post here a lot any more because the board has become full of posters who just want to point out the negative, for whatever reason. But if you recall, teams like the Ducks, Flyers, Flames, etc. were supposed to steam roll and run the Wings every game and by the time the post season got around the Wings record would not matter because they would be so unbelievably physically beat that they wouldn't hold a candle to any team. BTW what proof do you have that the Ducks would have started to run the Wings when or if the Wings got up big. Have they been doing that all year? Did they cheapshot the Sharks in the 4-1 loss, how about the Hurricanes in a 3-1 loss, 5-2 loss to Dallas, or how about a 4-0 win over the sharks, 5-2 over the blues, 4-1 over the lanche, 4-1 over the hurricanes? I don't know I didn't watch those games. You have a whole bunch of ifs supporting your points, where as all I know is the Wings beat the Ducks last night, I read a bunch of excuses on here (mainly from one poster) as to why the Ducks weren't up to the task. The Wings just beat most of the fight fans flagship team, and I wanted to make sure I got my point in. Because I guarantee you the day a Wings player misses as much as one shift from a check there will be a thread, not a post in the GDT, a thread complaining that an enforcer would have stopped it, and nobody would accept a "Well if it was a one point game that wouldn't have happened" answer.

Slave, I have stayed out of this argument because of how redundant it gets, but since last season one of the few people who has always backed Sammy is NFM25. Yes there are a lot more Sammy supporters than there were last season, I chalk that up to people being a little more forgiving now that he has a cup to his name, but NFM was there from the start. Plus you are expecting him to play like Dats Hossa or Z is completely illogical he is not that player and you may need to adjust your expectations of him. Do you expect Cleary to score 1 v 3? No one here, as far as I can tell, is claiming Sammy is a superstar, just that he provides a lot more than most 1.2 million dollar players. He fills his role very nicely. Ultimately is he tradeable or expendable, yes because of the fact he is not a superstar, because he is a solid NHL and there are many out there that put up Sammy numbers, like say Michael Ryder, who gets paid a lot more money, or Feds who, say what you want, puts up very similar numbers to Sammy but gets paid WAY more than Sammy. To prevent the onslaught here are some numbers tell me A or B who is Sammy and who is Feds: Player A: Year__GP_G_A_PTS_PIM 05-06 71 23 22 45 42 06-07 53 14 20 34 28 07-08 3 11 29 40 26 Player B Year__GP_G_A_PTS_PIM 05-06 62 12 31 43 64 06-07 73 18 24 42 56 07-08 68 11 30 41 38 Now who is who in 08-09? Player A 08-09 13 4 5 9 16 Player B 08-09 24 5 16 21 18

Oh so enforcers are only needed in games that are out of hand, I thought it was every game the wings forwards got run and took dirty hits that without an enforcer would doom the team forever! It is so hard to keep up with this, first they can't win without a real enforcer in the line up nightly, now it is they can't win without an enforcer in the lineup, in a blow out. I think I got it now. I guess we will see on Wed the 10th when they play Calgary. Can some one let me know the standards ahead of the game so I can keep track. So far I have: 1. Can not win because teams like the Ducks, Flames, Flyers will man handle the wings and run them and cheapshot them all over the ice. 2. Red Wing Players will get hurt against teams like the Ducks, Flames, Flyers from dirty hits, and that will prevent them from winning another cup. 3. The rule only applies in a blow out. Am I missing anything? BTW this rant is not aimed at esteef, he just happened to answer the question in my first post. Edit: not aimed at esteef sorry wrong poster.

So, let me get this straight, the Red Wings played the Ducks, with no enforcer dressed and still won, but huh, ahhh huh what how did that happen, surely 4 or 5 of the Red Wings must be headed to IR due to being run the whole game with no one there to stop it!

Because your post added what? Listen don't complain about others posts and then post nothing but a gripe. Because it is not like you were posting any thing into the conversation except a post complaining about people! But, uh, back to the lecture at hand Perfection is perfected, so Im a let em understand From a young gs perspective Oh sorry about that, little snoop on the Brain! Is the OP planning on answering any of the points people brought up or was this his version of ding-dong-ditch, only it is post-piss off-ditch, or is that puff puff pass, any way you get the point where is th OP to defend his youth position even though it was youth he stated was tired, and the fact he/she has a vague idea of how log the season is?

You say the team needs more youth, but the tired player you refer to is one of the "Youth"? Not sure I get the point of the question, more youth to replace the the non tired veterans to make the tired youth not tired? My brain hurts!

Going to be at that game, 14 rows up from center ice!

I am not saying he did or didn't use roids, however he VOLUNTARILY took state of the art testing which includes his sample being kept on file for 20 years and available to testing at any time. It was a huge story about how a bunch of US athletes joined this program. I doubt he used Steroids, I think he is Mark Spitz, however technology in that sport finally caught up with the rest of the world as evident by the disaster of every record in swimming this Olympic.

I will ask you who is the youngest of the three I will also say Ericsson won't be top 4 for at least 3 years in this org. Mule is a free agent contract. Lucic is proven. I am saying I make that deal, maybe I ask for a prospect in return or a high pick. BUT I am not Ken Holland, I am just a fan, I am not saying Holland would do this, I would. Edit Grammar and GOAL LUCIC!

Bar none my favorite non wing this kid is fun to watch and I would trade Mule and Ericsson for this kid!

Again Mess and Lemiuex are not that comparable where leading a team to a cup is necessary to decide between the two. Egroen, I have seen your posts and you are nowhere near a troll or puck bunny but is it really that hard for you to understand that I was using it as a deciding factor between the two, not saying that as a whole the comparison is valid for all players. So Lids loses credit for having Dats and Z but Bourque doesn't lose credit with Neely on his team? Everyone who has ever won a cup had other players with them that helped them win. Did Gretzky win it by himself? Did Yzerman win it by himself, Sakic, Modano? THE POINT IS THAT WHEN COMPARING BOURQUE AND LIDS, JUST THOSE TWO, I THINK LEADING THE TEAM TO A CUP PUTS BOURQUE AHEAD. Edit: I hate when work gets in the way, that should read Lids ahead not Bourque!

That is why my point was LED the team to a cup, Lids and Bourque are both really high end D-men of all time, to me leading a team to a cup puts lids ahead of Bourque, your comparisons the players are not in the same level of play, Henri was not Rocket nor was he even in the neighborhood. Stanley cups aren't the end all of who is better, but if it is close it can be a deciding factor. I know it is a popular way to argue on a discussion forum but because I say leading a team to a cup makes Lids better than Bourque doesn't mean I think it is a universal standard of comparison. In my opinion Hasek is so far ahead of Ozzie that even if Ozzie has a lead in the cup category it doesn't make him better. Why people insist on using a comparison across the board to prove one example wrong is beyond me. Because I think Lids leading a team to a cup puts him ahead of Bourque means yeah honestly I think Sammy and his one cup are better than Cam Neely and his no cups. Come on people a little common sense is not a lot to ask.

And to those people I would ask one simple question: How many cups did Bourque lead his team to? I have the utmost respect for Bourque, he was an Yzerman like guy in Boston, it sucked he had to leave to win his cup, but he never led a team to the cup, he rode along with Sakic and Forsberg but he was not the leader. Lids accomplishing that last year, plus the Norris trophies and the other things he has done, put him on top of Bourque to me. But then again I see it as Orr, Harvey Lids, Robinson, Bourque, and that is no slight to Bourque, I have the utmost respect for what he accomplished.

To me, the best part of the #5 hit was that when Kronner took off to lay him out, if you look at what would be Kronner's position on the ice, Flip is there. Ok so the impact was the best part of the hit, but the fact that the team covers for each other like that is a good sign.

Nuff said!

Hey stop using facts and logic and start arguing purely based on your emotions now or you will lose posting privileges! OK, Seriously 11 miin for EDM -5 for fighting = 6 13 min for Det - 5 for fighting = 8 which is 14 minutes of PP. 2 penalties (1 for each team) I would say were make up calls. The first period the refs were calling whiffs as penalties.

Sorry clarification, He has been pretty good all year and starting to play great now. I was in agreement with you but was not clear.

BECAUSE HE WAS PUT ON WAIVERS DOES NOT MEAN THEY HAVE SENT HIM TO PURGATORY! Sorry for the yelling but Jebus Christ people, he was waived in Oct. we had this whole discussion already Right here on this very website and where did he end up after that, STILL ON THE TEAM! Now the converstation probably went more like: "Hey Darren, we are up against the cap and for some flexibility I am going to put you on waivers, like last month, and I will probably do it next month too." "Cool, Ken thanks for letting me know, can I go back to practice now?" "Sure Darren, oh hey great job last night!"

He has been very good all year. Seems to really be jumping into the O a lot.