Opie

I haven't seen much of the games, but I was always a proponent of splitting the twins up to begin with, I always thought it would spread the wealth so to speak, obviously based on last years results I was wrong about that. BUT... The mere thought of Dats (pure set up guy with mind altering passes) and Hossa (a great shooter with a twisted wrister) on the same line is near orgasm inducing!!

HUH? PPL- first off I was the only one claiming it was a bad hit. Secondly I already admitted I was wrong. Do you read all of the posts or just a few and then guess the rest!

You are correct sir, I meant the H to be honest, but not sure that fits either, well lets just leave it at IMO!!!

IMHO, he is better than them in all aspects of the game that are offensive, he can't hold a candle to them defensively.

I stand corrected, I just watched the hit in super slo and only one foot left the ground, watching the highlights last night it look like both feet came off of the ice. Again, I stand corrected!

Except for the fact he left his feet, you are correct!

It is not just you, any package from China has to go through customs, odds are this will be about as far as you can track through their site thought, at least that was the story with mine, once it left China I was sort of blind!

This kid is great, awesome, my favorite non wing! There is a reason why in every enforcer thread this kid's name gets brought up, legit with the stick, legit with the hands, legit with the skates!!

Appendectomy and Hernia are two different things, but your point still remains valid. Although some people have come back in a few days, I think he is best served sitting out a couple of weeks. So you think the pressure of being traded has him coming back sooner?

If Vinny was a Wing is a hypothetical, what isn't is that Dats won the Selke, and you can claim all you want that it was based on his gaudy take away stat all you want, but unless you interviewed or read the voters opinions some where you have no clue what they used as criteria. I say D and Z are the two of most complete players in the game included in that list would be Vinny and Iginla. I would take D or Z over both of those players as well, why because they have been around an Org and players that instill the meaning of winning as a team over winning as an individual, the experience they have personally and the experienced players that have shared knowledge with them. They are top performer offensively and defensively. I root for D and Z just as hard as I root for Hudler and Sammy. I however understand the difference in skill sets and would not say that D and Hudler are comparable. The homer argument is funny, especially considered this is a legit debate and that Z and D are legit contenders for the title of Most complete/best all around player. It is not like some one is claiming Helm is the most complete.

Both Z and D are far better players than D was when he signed his deal, remember this board thought it was overpayment for him, now it is a steal. The difference being Z will get a contract that meets his current skill, where as Dats was a this is what they think he could be. Z is worth 9 mil, Dats was worth 4-5 mil when he signed the deal. Timing is everything!

But to some of us the fact that Z and D were able to shut down Crosby is the deciding factor, especially since Crosby can not at the current time shut down Hudler, let alone some one of Z or D's skills. Some of us think that the defensive part of the game is just as important as the offensive side. Lets say Crosby scores 15 points more than Z this season, how many goals does Z prevent with his defensive play, how many does Crosby. To me the trade is a wash, yes Crosby is unbelievably gifted, but Z and D are not light years behind him in skill, they are top 10 in the league as well (IMO) however they are top 3 in the league (by Selke votes) defensively. Crosby is not top 25 in the league defensively. And it is not like we are picking John Madden over Crosby, a very very good defensive player with limited offensive upside, we are choosing an elite forward in the game who also happens to play elite level defense over an offensive power house. I do not trade Z or D for Crosby at this time in their careers. In 1, 2, 3, 4 years my opinion may change, but currently there is no value added by bringing in Crosby over Z or D. *Well maybe he puts more butts in the seats. BTW you being sure that 95% of GM's would take Crosby does not make it an actual fact, until the GM's are polled on the issue it is mere speculation. Plus are you talking about GM's with none of the players looking at the three or a GM having Z and looking to trade for Crosby.

LGW Thread This ladies and gentlemen is why I am "Anti-enforcer"*, not because I have fundamental problem with fighting in the game or that I want to see fighting banned/gone/extinct. But I don't want a Red Wing player going out with good intentions (Downey v. Lappy comes to mind) of protecting a teammate only to have it turn it into this fiasco. The league is creating this environment, the instigator rule creates this environment. Case in point, what Avery did against NJ in the post season, if players on the other team thought he was an embarrassment (which I am sure some did) they could have let him know what they felt and incurred the 5 minute fighting or 2 minute roughing penalty. Instead the league has set it up so that if that good intentioned player or some one wanting to teach respect of the game tries to share some wisdom with another player (using their fists) there are so many penalty minutes associated with it that it is not funny. 19 Minutes for retribution on what he thought was a player taking liberties with his teammate. BULLs***!!! * Not my term, but the accepted term!

Hernia Zetterberg has a Henrik!!!! Just kidding!

Just for some reference here, so people don't think GS&T is a Dats slappy, it was him last year that at the start of the season started a thread saying Dats needed to step it up and that Center was the better position for him. Correct GS&T, I just don't want people thinking all you do is say Dats is great the way some people just post about Z being robbed of the Selke every chance they get! Eva

Very well put and well worded!!!

I never said he was a wonder kid, I just said it is not only his freakish height that has him in the NHL, whether or not J-Ho is playing now has nothing to do with how he was scouted. Howard was touted as a can't miss future NHL starting goaltender. Ben Bishop is not touted as such, that was my only statement. Your original post made it seem you thought he was only there to be a freakshow.

Another thought, I know a lot of Fischer what if threads pop up and people speculate on who would be on the D had he remained healthy. I think he would have also filled a void of a guy who can throw and play with high skill. Not saying the Wings are always looking for the fighter, but Fischer was able to do both and the Wings drafted him, so there have been times when Detroit has drafted that type of guy.

Again I agree 100%, it is not me making the decision, but in defense of Holland, many of the guys who have come and gone are of the Norton, Downey ilk. While Derek Boogaard may fit a team like Minnesota's philosophy he just doesn't it the Wings philosophy. Being able to fight just isn't enough to make a regular appearance in the Wings line up. Whether you or I like that or not is irrelevant, what is important is winning, not what people think of the team (IMO) if fans of Philly think the Wings are soft and laugh at them I am too busy watching highlights of the 07-08 cup to hear them! BUT... If a Lucic type player, or Lucic himself did fall into Kenny's lap I hope to hell Kenny would jump on it.

Just so you know where I am coming from, if you were to say the wings were missing what Drake brought in the post season, big hits, forechecking, tenacious play, I am in 100% agreement. I just don't agree that they need an enforcer.

Or he was in college and actually came out a year early, very similar to his predecessor at U-Maine, one Jimmy Howard. Now Bishop is not a highly touted as J-Ho, but make no mistake it is not just his freakish height that has him in the NHL.

Do you think Derek Boogaard is going to stop Steve Downie or Jesse Boulerice, I don't think so. He may be in the line up to get retribution but not to prevent anything, he may prevent a Ron Francis type of player but not a Steve Downie, nor a Chris Simon. Damn soft Euros they will never win anything with a bunch of soft Euros, good thing last years team wasn't full of soft Euros or worse yet led by one!!!!!! Edit: But you are right the building is half empty only because of the lack of enforcers and the Euro product.

great description!!!

I will wait for your stats and the statements that back up theory, while I post on your comments on my post. Mainly because you can't back up your theory so you divert attention to my post. Schneids #2 (maybe 3) d-man on the team, gone for that round. Kronwall #3 (maybe 4) d-man on the team, gone for that round. What other year have the wings played a round missing 2 of its top 4 d-men? What other year have the wings played a round missing 2 of its PP point men? Who was all for trading Schneids for a bag of pucks? His defense may have been lacking, but he was always here for his offense and his ability to work the PP. One can argue that with Schneids and Kronwall in the line up Lilja isn't there to hand the puck to Selanne, but that is simply conjecture so we don't need to concern ourselves with this one. Plus it is not like Ana was the 6th ranked team in the west and simply manhandled the wings, they were # 2 going into the postseason and had a 110 point season,making them the 4th best team in the league and tying them for 2nd with Nashville in the west. Teemu, Neids, Penner all had great seasons and post seasons. So it is not like they just punched their way to the finals, they just had a great balance! Edit: There does not mean their!!

It was a scope so the entrance wound (for lack of better terms) is minimal at best and is more of a puncture wound as opposed to an open gash on the side of him. But I could be wrong.