Opie

While I agree with you, I bring this point of contention to the argument. Shanny or a player of is caliber is not on this team or available to this team, D-mac in his prime is not on this team and is not available, Vlad was a product of the Wings, signed, neither Vlad nor a player of his ability are available to the Wings. Lucic is not available to the Wings. What should the Wings do? If Lucic were out there and the Wings had a shot at him I believe Holland would make that move, however no one of that caliber is available for the Wings. And until a player of that skill/style is available the Wings will continue to make the best move for the Org. They tried Brad Norton, they are now trying the Aaron Downey experiment (which to me was successful last season). It is not as if the team completely ignores the enforcer role, they just don't have access to the enforcer that they think is deserving a spot over skill players (take that term for what you will).

And your proof of this theory is what? And please don't feed me the BS about the Wings losing to the Ducks in the WCF because they got manhandled. Neither Schneids or Kronner's injuries were hit (clean or not) related, but their abscence had a direct affect on the PP, which sucked ass and should have scored on 5-3. The Ducks didn't beat the Wings because they manhandled them, they just flat out beat them. The only dirty stuff was the hit on homer.

WRONG!!!! He left because he felt the team was moving in a younger direction and he represented the old guard. He thought the team was ready for a change, with Yzerman retiring he was the only remaining (except Lids but he is never leaving) old guard player. Nice and clean split by both sides. Well that is if you want to take his word for it, the split with Shanny was mutual, the Wings offered him a contract and he choose to move on, that simple. Feds was insulted (naturally) by the Wings removing the extra year, the Wings (guessing here) were pissed that he did the Carolina thing and I think they were afraid he would do the same again. They had a verbal agreement (I am almost positive but not 100%) on a contract and the Wings took a year off. Messy split by both sides, but only if you take the Carolina thing into consideration, otherwise just bad business by the Wings, but I am not sold on the idea that they wanted him around anymore.

You want retribution, I am not arguing that fact. What I am arguing is that the post I originally quoted was not about seeking revenge/retribution it was that it would impact the success when one of the key players is manhandled. What good did the slash of Mule do for Calgary, did it cause any hesitation in Mule's game, did Homer have any doubt about going back to the net? NO. Wanting retribution and thinking that the Wings will lose because players won't be on the ice due to injury are completely different things.

Do your normal predictions always include impending doom or are we all just the lucky ones?

A major injury would be one that constitutes more than a few games missed, like missing a month or more. I would say that the hit on Lids was perfectly clean, I watched it live (on TV) and the replays, plus the youtubes of it, IMO the hit was clean. You may disagree but you are entitled to that opinion. Again I haven't watched any games this season due to hunting Rocky in the woods of Maine, so your assessment of Kopecky will get no argument from me. That is why it was a BTW question.

I can't comment on that part, I have been in the middle of the woods in Maine for 2 weeks trying to get a Moose so I can not comment on this season, I will take your word for it with a grain of salt.

Redwings record last 3 years (Pres trophy standings) *Major injuries during the year 07-08 54 21 7 115 (Winner) Stanley Cup winner * NONE 06-07 50 19 13 113 (Tied for first lose tie breaker) WCF lose * NONE 05-06 58 16 8 124 (Winner) Lost in 1st round of playoffs * NONE So tell me again how many players got run in those seasons and how many of them were manhandled to the point were it cost the wings anything. Drake's impact was the forechecking presence had nothing to due with his fists, plus if you remember correctly, seeing as you pay so much attention to the games, Dallas had a horrible regular season and most on here (including me) were questioning him on the team, then he had a terrific post season and showed why he was on the roster. Hell, in the 07 playoffs, Homer got mashed by two Duck players and then turned around and scored a point on the very first (or at least one of his first shifts) back on the ice. AND he was healthy and playing in the next game which was a loss. BTW who are the two roster spots that are providing little to nothing? EDIT: Clarity

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Another U-Maine Blackbear

EXACTLY!!!!!

Not to put words in GS&T's mouth but it seemed like he was more talking about the money he got paid in ANA and C-Bus, but I could be wrong!

Because the panic button is always in play for Detroit fans. ZOMG they are not going to go undefeated, ZOMG it took Hossa 5 games to score a goal, the Wings are destine for an early playoff exit or worse yet not making the post season!!!!!! Same reason people freak out game 3 of the first round of the post season, or at the deadline when player X isn't acquired.

We all slip once and a while!

- Montgomery Burns -George Burns

Grey away jersey

Linky No. 3 star: Ceremony organizer, Detroit Red Wings We'd love to have the name of the person in charge of the banner-raising ceremony at Joe Louis Arena, because he or she definitely deserves kudos for a number of appropriate and special touches. For starters, the Stanley Cup headlined eight trophies on display won by the Red Wings last season – Presidents' Trophy, Campbell Bowl (conference title), Conn Smythe (Henrik Zetterberg), Norris Trophy (Nicklas Lidstrom), Selke Trophy (Pavel Datsyuk), Lady Byng (Datsyuk) and Jennings Trophy (Chris Osgood, Dominik Hasek). And fans attending the game were given small replica championship banners at the door. But the really special moment was when a number of Red Wing legends, led by Gordie Howe, carried the 2007-08 Stanley Cup banner through the Zamboni entrance and handed it off to a few current Red Wings players on their way to the rafters.

Quincey is on the roster and will be traded, last year the wings had Downey and played him, this year they have downey and your fear is they won't play him based on what? They have a roster situation that currently means they can not keep Downey OR they decided he doesn't fit on the roster, either way the only thing we can go on right now is speculation, you can speculate that Downey will not see a shift and I can speculate that he will play 40 games. Last year Babs found a way to use him and be affective, Downey was able to be nothing more than a positive for every game he played.* My thoughts, why would that change, well maybe the hit of flip, maybe the three penalties in the last pre season game, maybe he is just down until Mac can clear, other than speculation and guesses none of us know what will happen with Downey. My guess, I agree with you, Mac is not an enforcer any more and due to that fact as soon as he can be sent down and Q is traded Downey will be the 13th forward, but at this time Holland sees the need to have Meech and Q up. Have a little faith, Downey will play IMO, for the reasons of what he did in situations like Lids and Lappy! *EDIT: That was meant to be a compliment to Downey as he only brought positives (IMO) to the team when he did play. But I don't believe because he was on the team the Wings won, and that if he wasn't they would have lost.

See I agree with you 100% and I am labeled as "anti-enforcer", very rarely is the "pro-enforcer" argument worded the way you have, normally it is the Wings are doomed because they have no enforcer. And when I reply, that it is not necessary to have one (which I believe it is not) their response is usually "we'll see if you feel the same way when Z or Dats get run!" To be honest with you other than Lids (I believe that was a clean hit) when was the last time a Red Wing was flat out run, Drake on Lebda? My point being this team is very adept at missing checks, when was the last time anyone laid a solid hit on Dats? The so called "Anti-Enforcers" are not saying (sorry at least from my point of view) that enforcers are horrible people or have no right being in the game. All we are saying is that this Wings team is built in a way that enforcers are not necessary. Not every team, Not even every Wings team, but this current roster plays a game that an enforcer is not necessary. Would it help, sure, does it make the guys feel safer, I doubt it. They may like the feeling of knowing that some one is there to retaliate, but I don't think it makes Lids feels like he is less vulnerable. Plus what on earth do you expect the Captain of the Red Wings to say, No I hate Downey and wish he was on his parents farm, not going to happen. I agree an enforcer will deter some things, or some players but not all. I made this analogy and will make it again: Enforcers are like police officers, they do not stop a criminal (cheapshot in hockey) from doing what they are going to do, they enforce the penalty. Now a police officer (enforcer) may stop you or I (Cleary or Stu Barnes) but will not stop all criminals (Downie or Boulerice). Some people will do what they want to do, those are the guys that you need to worry about running a Lids or Hank, Lappy's hit was clean IMO, it looked dirty because it was one of the few times in his career Lids has gotten tagged like that. Downey let Lappy know to be careful around Lids, I appreciate what he did and that was what turned my mind to believing he is the perfect fighter for this team. All and all I think your post was spot on, I was just stating my opinion on the matter!!

Let me ask a question, Why are we having this debate again, I know I have been elbow deep in it too, but something just occurred to me: Nothing has changed in regards to an enforcer. Downey was on the team last year, he is on the team this year. He cleared waivers last year, he cleared waivers this year. He played 53 games last year, he will most likely see 40 or so games again, if not him than Mac another enforcer. So what exactly is the problem, why is it that we are talking like the team has no enforcer what so ever or that Downey has been cut?

http://detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...S0103/810090381

I would love to see J-Ho in a wings Jersey, and next year will be the telling year, with no waiver exemptions he will be with the club or not. It is hard to base the teams opinion of him on just the fact he is in the AHL, as Ericsson is also being sent down and the team is high on him. The main difference being the team has stated how high they are on Ericsson and said very little about Howard. Being from Maine and a big fan of the Black Bears I am pulling for J-Ho and would love to see him eventually between the pipes, but if he is not good enough for the Wings I wish him luck elsewhere, but that will all be looked at next pre-season when it will surely be do or die for Jimmy.

LTD, I was thinking along the same lines, these people must not have access to the injury list or TSN.ca is being blocked by ESPN's firewall. Pittsburgh's D is going to give them big troubles, they weren't super deep there to begin with, now you take out the top 2 and hope Letang can carry them, when he was mostly known for what he was able to do in shootouts, that has got to hurt that team, and if it doesn't then WOW just WOW!

OR he could end up like Yzerman and be one of the best players and captains in the game! The only thing worse than the media constantly kissing his ass, is fans of other teams constantly putting him down. Raw talent wise Crosby and Ovechkin are the most talent under 25 players in the game and that the game has seen in a long time, and how old are they Crosby 21, AO 23. They are the future of the league, every league finds a youngster to pin their hopes on, the NFL it was Vick, oops. People need to get over the Crosby thing, he is as talented a 21 year old you will ever find in the league except one player.