Opie

1 question who is holding a gun to the head of these players? Are they being stolen away in the middle of the night? other than Feds! Do you feel any bitterness towards the players?

Per Yahoo

I guess they keep hoping some one will give Marleau the Heimlich and maybe the sharks will survive to the SCF!

The Z and Wings ones were MEH OK, the Sidney one was actually pretty decent.

BTW, your gut feeling about a guy doesn't mean he can do anything remotely close to what Sammy can do, as stated by another poster, it is not like Leino and Helm right now are out there playing against top tier NHL lines. Also Huds was a second round draft pick that would have been a 1st rounder if taller, his skill set is supposed to be better than Sammy's, plus Sammy was brought to the Wings to be a defensive forward, Huds was brought in to score. Not exactly apples to apples. s*** last year in the AHL Helm put up less points than Sammy, what makes you think in the NHL he will be able to put up better numbers against better players?

F. Michael to be honest with you, last spring I was the only person on this board defending Sammy remembering who I defended him to is asking a lot of me. How inconsistent is he, do you really expect more than 40 points a year from the guy, do you expect him to be more than the #5 or 6 forward on this team? How inconsistent are the following set of stats; In 3 regular seasons: 71gp 23g 22a 45pts 53 14 20 34 73 11 29 40 In 3 post seasons: 10 3 3 6 6 0 1 1 18 3 8 11 That is pretty close to the picture of consistency, the only way he could be more consistent is if he got the same exact numbers every year. Maybe it is your expectations that are set to high. Again your problem with him on the PP point is a problem with Babs not Sammy, Sammy did not put himself there, BABS DID! Sammy wasn't the only person to step forward last year and volunteer to be on the second line with Mule and Flip, BABS PUT HIM THERE!

I never said being right or wrong made you levelheaded, I said it is nice when being levelheaded turns out to be right. I was levelheaded in that situation because I stopped arguing, not because of my opinion. Sorry if my wording led you astray what you understood from my post was not my intended message.

Yes the ruling party, is that like senate majority leader? So when some one disagrees with you they are trying to be a ruling party? The only knock that people have on Sammy is that he shoots too much and is not accurate, that is the only knock, the one and only. Him being on pp2 point, Babs decision not his, he can't dictate where and when he plays. Don't like him on a line, Babs decision. And you would rather see and unproven, inexperienced, unknown entity on the third line because why, exactly? Sammy can't play D, he can't score, he can't pass, why exactly? Oh that is right, because most posters on here need some one to hate, without the whipping boy what would half of the posts on here look like, nothing because even in the offseason about 10% of the posts on here revolve around Sammy, why he sucks, who CAN replace him. (remember no one is questioning Helm or Leino after what 3 preseason games good sampling)

NFM and Toby, Just let it play out, think about last year pre season I got castrated on here for saying the Ducks weren't the favorite because they had no offense, people were saying that with that D and PP they could put out AHLers at forward and be the favorite. At the deadline people wanted KH's head rolling, he was a horrible GM and needed to be let go. Watch how it plays out, it is so nice when levelheadedness turns out to be right.

Yeah because either player had so much control over that!

Don't forget also brought up in this thread as a detractor to Sammy was the Cleary injury which was just pure bad luck!

IF YOU DO NOT WANT THE #24, YOU MUST LET THEM KNOW SOON! Once your order has past processing you are getting the Cheli Jersey. I didn't want it and told them, they agreed to refund my money, however they never told me about the change in Jersey. If you think you are still getting the Z jersey I have bad news for you, people who ordered on the 13th of Sep are getting #24, you will want to check in on this quickly before you get a jersey you may not want.

I am going to avoid the Sammy side of the argument and throw this tid bit out there: Babcock makes everyone earn their spot, from Huds to Franzen to Cleary. If he thinks a guy hasn't earned it yet he will not give them the minutes, maybe just maybe Babs is letting the kids know he likes what they have (to keep their confidence up) but at the same time he has stated things they need to work on. Leino specifically Babs has said needs to work on his size and going to the net. Using size and going to the net are things that are way up on Babs priority list. Listen Babs is making the lineups I believe his resume speaks for itself, have some faith in the head coach and his 3 straight 50 wins season, 2 straight WCFs, and 1 Stanley cup. He has everyone on this team playing his style, certain guys he has shoot more, certain guys he ask go to the net harder than others, everyone plays D, etc... Maybe just maybe, he thinks 20 mins a night will help Abdelkader, Helm, and Leino will make them even better for next year when he could potentially have lost Hossa and Sammy. Injuries will happen, guys will need nights off, these guys will play some with the big club, especially if the Wings tear the league up this year.

I think playing the third line with Cleary and Sammy will only show case his defensive abilities and give Val a huge boost of confidence. Next season will be interesting, one would have to assume Sammy and Hossa will be the odd men out, due to cap and/or youth in the system. That could mean that for like the 5th year in a row Detroit will have a new second line again, only this time it looks like it could be a different (Not new they would just go back to ZDH, unless Z, Mule and Hudler absolutely tear it up!).

So now they have no offense and half of a d, sorry Duck Guy this could be a tough year. Sometimes it sucks being a loyal fan, trust me I know. I am a Celtics fan and while they may have won a championship recently, I was a fan when they could barely win 20 games!

It is no more difficult to win the second cup than it is the first.

I forgot about the under 35 at time of contract signing means being in the AHL his salary would not count! Good catch!!

Nope, if he is picked up by another team they eat half of his cap hit. I believe NN or NFM25 or others will correct me if I am wrong some people on here have a wicked understanding of the CBA, not me!

I wonder if anyone else will give him a shot, he is only 32, while he is not the most gifted forward out there, he is a veteran player!

Per TSN

By big 4 I think he meant that in a span of about 8-10 years there were 4 teams that won the cup, there is no big 4 any more, just a big 1. And even that is probably the Homer in me coming out. What made the Big 4 special at that time was that Dal, Col, Det, and NJ were pretty much playing for the championship every year. A Det/Col WCF was pretty much the SCF.

This is why Babs is a great coach, yes the dig at Huds was in jest, but you have to think in some Bowman/Fedorov way that this is motivation for Huds. Also at the same time he gives the guys fighting for positions the nod (pun intended) whenever he can, giving them praise or a compliment even when not asked about them. His praise is high, but so are his expectations, he will make players earn a spot, and when they have his trust he will reward them, look at Huds reward he gets put on a line with one of the top scorers in the league last year and the reigning conn smythe winner. The future for this team looks very bright, at least according to Babs, I hope he is around for a long time to be a part of this Org, I just really like his style and the mixture of Wings Possession hockey and Babs defense first philosophy is like getting the most perfectly mixed drink at a bar, you just sit back and sip in the wonderfulness!

3.5 for a washed up backup? OK maybe washed up is a little harsh, but they just signed Oldie the Goalie, sorry Olaf Kolzig, the have Mike Smith (TBL that is ). The Ott has Gerber and Auld and about 4 mil in cap space, but seriously is Khabi any better than those two?

As soon as I saw this thread I was thinking LA, with all of the young netminders and the need to make cap floor this is a perfect fit.

I believe that if you get the refund from them it includes shipping as they have not yet paid for shipping. The only reason not to get your shipping back would be if you went through PayPal and returned the item. PayPal can not go after your shipping in most cases. In this case however they can't keep your shipping as they haven't paid any shipping.