Opie

These quotes are GREAT!!!

I would not.

Rejected due to wording of no trade clause, per ESPN. Per TSN as well Link

Were you singing a similar tone when he was a UFA, if no than you mind friend have a gift, take Miss Cleo's job, if you were saying the same thing, you were wrong once already!

Another factor is the opinion of an Org that is the winningest the past 20 years but can't sell out their own building. Regardless of whether that is economy or what, that looks negative. 10 tickets at $10 = 100 15 tickets at $6 = $90 + 5 more hot dogs + 5 more beers/cokes + another car or two parking + 2 more popcorns + one more foam finger + 10 more chuck-a-pucks. As stated yest other things go into consideration, but a half empty lower bowl at $125 a piece is not going to be made up for by charging $50 for standing room only, the tickets that are actually selling currently. Plus then you have Minnesota selling out every night barely making it to the playoffs, while the Wings can't sell out a building any more.

And you know what, I have no arguments against that, he definitely did all of those things you said. Which is why I think when you get to top 5 it is so hard to distinguish, because then it is well Roy did this and Hasek did that. To me it is like the Brady/Manning debates as to who is the best QB, they both have done some crazy stuff, set recordsm won rings. Me personally I say Brady, I am a Pats fan though.

I made that post in 100% serious agreement with you, Tretiak is easily top 3 netminder of all time, easily! How often did that guy lose?

Isn't that just the nature of the beast, if you are surrounded by mediocre talent yet because of your individual play the team performs far and away better than they should and gets farther than they should. Where as if you are a great talent in net but have the 02 Wings in front of you your talent is not needed as much as say a Hasek in front of the 97-98 Sabres team. Hasek was not just making a lot of saves though, the quality of his saves were tremendous, sure the snow angel made a couple of fluttering shots look more difficult than they were, but how often did the fact that he had a slinky for a spine keep the puck out of the net. I am not saying he should be 2 not 3 or 1 not 2 or 3 not 2, I am just defending the argument that the man was bare none one of the best to ever play the position. And on these all times list once you get to top 5 it is usually biases or preferences or the era you saw play that makes one higher than the other. Some here have already mentioned a Canadian bias, well then of course you are going to pick Roy, and as some one with out a Canadian Bias I would agree, but I could also point out how Hasek could have been better.

Gold sticker for post of the day right here boys and girls, everyone read this post and if you don't know who he is talking about spend some time researching it, time well spent! Top 3 goalie of all time easily!

What you seem to be missing is that Chechmanek had players around him, Broduer had players around him, Lemieux had ******* Jagr for Christ's sake. Hasek had such greats as: Matthew Barnaby Michael Peca Bob Boughner Mike Greir Doug Houda Paul Kruse J-Woolley Alexei Zhitnik Not exactly top 10 talent on that team was there!

Mule is not the equivalent of a power forward that Hossa is as an all around forward. You mean to tell me that Hossa with an all around game (5v5, pk, pp, defensive zone play, premier scorer, all of the things Z and Dats are) is not what you would do if you were presented with the whole team but one forward spot sewn up, you would take an average power forward (call me when he puts up serious numbers for more than a couple of months) over a top 20 talent in the league. The question wasn't posed, you have to fit the two in the cap, you need to fill out your roster. It was, Hossa V Mule who do you take. I have to agree with Eva's eval (alliteration intended) just not with his word choice. Homer is 36, Franzen is 28. Homer has multiple years of being the best at what he does. Franzen set a record for scoring in a month, he could become the next Jim Carrey, one hit wonder if you will. s*** can Franzen even duplicate what he did last year, what if he starts of real slow and Babs puts Sammy on that wing, or goes Z Huds Flip, or even Cleary because Mule is lacking the kick (pun intended) the Wings are looking from him. Those questions, even though you may want to pretend, don't exists with Hossa, he is a proven NHL scorer and all around player. If Mule sniffs top 50 players in the league in his career I will s*** my pants. Hossa is more than that already. Franzen has too many unknowns, Hossa is as close to a stone cold lock for 70-80 points a year. Without Datsyuk or a player of that caliber on his wing! Hossa and Franzen are a year apart in age, Hossa is a proven commodity, Franzen is unproven and hopefully he will be the power forward you claim him to be. There is a reason there is an OMG Hossa is a wing group (not that I am in it, but how can I not be, the wings have 3 of the top 20 forwards in the game!) and not an OMG Franzen is the best power forward in the game group. With Franzen there are a ton of if's, with Hossa there is one, will he be healthy. And even then history shows us no reason to panic, but it is still cause for concern. Hossa has had multiple years of great play, Franzen has had multiple months of great play, all while being a year different in age. If you were comparing keeping Hossa to keeping a 24 year old Johan Franzen who just came off of this year I think you would have a lot more valid argument. But they are so close in age and so far apart in skill that the comparison is really not even a comparison.

Because Howard is out of Waiver options next year, so if it is a tie (no pun intended) the wings are going to side with Howard, IMO. Howard is a potential starter and was billed to be a very very good prospect. Conklin is a career back up who is older than Howard. If the Wings want to keep Conklin past this season it would involve letting go or either Howard or Osgood. Seeing as Ozzie is the starter for this and next season (at minimum) it comes down to Conklin and Howard. If Larsson shows up this season and owns Howard in GR then Conklin would probably get another contract, Howard would be dealt/waived and Larsson would have Waiver options. That is a a shot in the dark, odds are Larsson will take a season or two to get used to NA hockey and the rinks.

This year is a strange year when it comes to signing salaries, I believe they haven't decided whether or not to continue the CBA, so I believe ( I could be wrong, if I am some one will correct me) you have to be very careful with how much of next years salaries and bonuses you carry.

I stand corrected, didn"t research his pay check. Me too!

Except for the fact that I am trading away these players for the salary dump not necessarily what I get in return, I would like to get an enforcer back. In my scenario Sammy would be traded for an enforcer (as the returning player would be a forward) and Lilja would be traded for the release of salary. That is a horrible way to look at it but the two would be bundled for one forward who makes as much as one of them and the rest would be a salary dump. I actually don't mind trading the two for a group of prospects or picks, the main reasons to trading a D man is the logjam and cap space. My wanting to trade Lilja and Sammy has very little to do with their skill set except that the skills they provide would definitely be desired by other teams more than Lebda and Helm (not saying trade them just using the names as examples). Plus you first line is a bit of an exaggeration, Lilja is not top 5 fighter in the league, the other 2 are top 3 in the league at what you used. If Kenny finds away to get rid of enough salary and keep Lilja I am all for it, as long as some one on the back end gets traded to make space. I never really thought they would trade him due to sign and trades being rare, I assumed it would be Sammy and a lesser paid D player (Lebda, Meech, etc). That way it opens up salary, Mule, Hossa, Cleary, Huds, and Flip will be able to cover the "secondary scoring" (Hossa is not secondary) void left by Sammy. Plus it opens up what is going to be a logjam at forward really soon. Maybe your third line is Cleary Flip X, with the X being Leino, Abdelkader, etc. I still think that is the way to go I just have a feeling that Lilja is gone, in my opinion having a solid D man is more important than a solid forward. Especially when you look at this team's forwards.

SWEEEEEEET!!!!

I can almost guarentee you that even if those two stay, Lebda and Cheli will be whipping boys, if they leave Lebda, Cheli, and Huds!

Cool I gotcha, My bad! BTW, I wasn't bashing him just saying his deal $ makes the most sense to be traded, but I am basing that off of numbers (money wise) and numbers alone!

QUE? what in the world was that in reference to?

In no way shape or form was Crosby the biggest Whiner, maybe the biggest whiner of the players, but he is the C he is supposed to speak up. The biggest whiner without a shadow of a doubt was Therrien! I think he is a main reason players looked else where. Think of Hossa, he is looking at two Orgs that are going to be good for the next couple of years, what is the biggest gap between the two orgs, in my opinion coaching, followed closely by D.

The problem with that is that there still isn't enough cap space cleared. The Wings with Cheli and Quincey signed are about 1.2 over the cap, Lebda and Meech only clear about 1m on there own, there would have to be a third NHL roster player thrown in. At first I didn't think that the Wings would sign and trade Lilja but it looks like Lilja knew it was a possibility before he signed which makes me believe it will be Lils that is gone.

Agree 100% I just know that I personally would want to see the Havoc that PP could create and the temptation would be too great, but then again I have never coached a team to what Babs has so maybe discipline is just another way we differ, babs and I that is!

Then the man is very disciplined, that is like a friend handing you the keys to his Porsche and saying here you go but only drive it to move it around the on street parking. Inevitably one day, I would have to move it to a parking spot very far away only to realize it is taken and have to drive all the way back, at 150 of course!

Lilja and a guy from GR or maybe just maybe Lilja and Sammy for a grinder/enforcer. Maybe a guy like Willie Mitchell, Vancouver could use the D and Scoring or anything for that matter. Willie may not put the biscuit in the basket that much but 10-20 points and the ability to smash some one's head. Maybe send them to LA, Fla, Carolina and get some form of a physical force back. Holland usually likes to operate about 1mil under the cap, that may not be possible this year, but if he sends these two off and get a grinder and a prospect or a grinder and an AHLer.

I may not have the same opinion as all of you when it comes to enforcers, but at least I respect them and what they bring to the game. I have no respect for this punk, he should have never been able to play pro hockey after the first time he brained some one in the mouth with a hockey stick!