Dynheart

I'm not understanding the Rag's fans. They lost. So what is they put a lot of shots on net. Whoop-dee-doo. How many games/series has the Wings lost over the years looking like that? It's about the timely goals; and this team has that in spades. Lack of skill? Whatever. You can't be the number 1 PP in the league without skill. Honest opinion? Sore losers. They expected to wipe the floor with the Wings, because you know...they are the supposed "cup favorites". The Wings? This team was never supposed to make it to the playoffs according to critics and HFboards "critics", so as far as they are concerned? Over achievers AKA just a bubble team, AKA easy win. Looks like they are a fan base that doesn't know how to handle the success of the team they root for. Horrible winners, and sore losers. Hate to read the web-sites I go to if they win the cup. Ugh. Do I think this team can go all the way? Small chance. Do I think this team can make a huge splash? Hell, yea! Much bigger than any other fan base give this team credit for. I predict some salt coming the other way come playoff time courtesy of the Red Wings. Side note. Whats with the personal attacks? So the RED WINGS win, and they say crap like "at least I don't live there." Really? Stay classy, eh.

Well then, it's decided. Let's make the site more exciting! The Red Wings are decent, and aren't even in the same league as TBL, Pens, Habs, etc etc...after 1 game. Howard sucks. Babcock needs to go. Holland needs to go. Blow. It. Up.

Let's be frank, just about every rookie (save for the very bad ones) comes up to the NHL and looks like the next Roy. That is until the league figures them out. Then all of the sudden those .939 1.34 back to back seasons (playing only 18 games or so) dip down drastically to something like ...885. Back to the AHL they go. Maybe a couple of them will be seen in the NHL a couple of years from now as a back up. Or they just fade away, and those rookie seasons get chalked up as flukes. Mrazek is lumped in with these very same rookies until he's proven. I'm not too quick to jump on a boat that I've seen way too many times...that just ends up sinking. And for that reason, there's no reason to shorten Howards leash...on an already shortened leash by the fans. Is Mrazek Talented? He looks like it. But he's certainly not ready to take over Jimmy's job. @toby91: Every goalie goes through rough patches. Even the top 5 that people always drool over. That's why you look at the big picture. Not a hand full of games here and there that can be cherry picked to make a case that the goalie is just plain average (see, I have proof! he went on a stretch of 8 games where he averaged .905). The man may not have elite stretches as good as the top 5. But when he has his low points, he still performs on par, with you average goalie. I rarely see Howard get lit up for more than 4. And that's rare. It's 1-2, with an occasional 3. 4 being a bad game. He's let in more than 4 throughout his career, but I'm sure there's maybe a dozen of them. He just plods along with 1-2/occasional 3 goals against for the majority of career. To me, his consistency is constantly understated. Never elite. But never really bad. And people talk as if this is a bad thing.

I really don't understand the flak Howard gets, or the short, SHORT, leash he's been given. For some reason, he's been labeled an barely average- average goalie. It almost seems like the fans, or just hockey fans in general, are hypocritical about the guy. Barely average-average= a .900-.910. .915 on a good year? Maybe 60% at the shootout? If that's what we expect from Howard, then last season he shouldn't have really been crucified. He played within his talent level, accord to most. You see, to me, Barely average- average goalies do not post .920+ the majority of their career (so far). To me, until his average season last season, an average goalie doesn't post around 75% in the shootout, consistently. To me, that's high end of above average goal tending. Or has he just been overachieving his whole career? And don't tell be it's because of the stout defense we put out on that ice. /sarcasm Oh, but what about this year's shootout numbers! Statistical anomalies happen. You just don't go from one of the better shootout goalies, to the worst, without a reason. I'm sure it will be fixed. Mrazek has talent. But he's far from ready. He has had the benefit of an offensive burst from the Wings right now. Sure it's a team game. But had it been Howard it net letting in those very same goals? The man would be on GOAT status, if he isn't there already. Mrazek can't catch a puck. He can't swallow a puck. Sure Jimmy's rebound control was bad, but not this bad. It was mostly Jimmy's kick saves (as still kind of there) that were the problem. Never a glove issue, or swallowing the puck...to this degree. I feel like Mrazek supporters are on a high right now because "he's winning". But once there's a stretch where he needs to squeeze points from 5-6 1 goal games in a row. I know Jimmy can do it. Mrazek? I'm not so sure. And as excited as some people are, and as I am, I'm not ready to hand over the reigns to the kid until he's 100% better than Jimmy. And Jimmy is a realllly good goal tender. It won't be an easy take over, no matter how we try to conjure up a scenario.

Makes sense. And if that's the case, I'm even more impressed with Nyquist. Playing those high quality minutes, and still producing at a decent pace. Once it clicks for him. Along with Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco (who has found a niche as a playmaker atm, and it's working for him). With Pulks and Mantha on the way? Ohhhohohoho baby. Who needs a number 1 pick? Yea yea, would be nice. But this team is contending just find without them. I believe the defense we have waiting will preform like the offense is, or close to it. With Mrazek in net? /drool What sucks is we'll be the 2010 Hawks. All this talent...have to trade it away as they will cost too much eventually. Gotta make these growing years count!

I agree. Just worry about making the save. Not trying to to stop the play. He'll learn. That was a bad spot/time to try the Johnathan Quick trick. Even though it's legit, the ref wont buy it if it's mid play (like someone is about to score 'mid play'). Just look what happened to the Wings first goal.

Contract extension; with a raise!

Howard is a workhorse. He can put together a massive string and not be bothered. It's actually one of he's strong points. There's only two goalies I know of that can out work him, I believe, and that would be Rinne and Quick. Those guys are also Workhorse. Howard is good for 65 games easy. Rinne and Quick can put up 70+ games. So burn out shouldn't be an issue. Now should get to that point? That's another question. Howard, outside of last season (he practically played they entire shortened season), has really never had the benefit of relief. It would be wise to rest him if you can the means to. If the Wings make a push, your goalie needs all the stamina they can save up. He's never had that benefit until last season, and he wasn't himself last season(he also got injured..he was playing well in the playoffs I guess). I hope he gets some rest, as he's back in form. I'd like to see the Wings make it past the 2nd round with him in net.

I'm really torn. I think Howard is that type of goalie you just don't say "let's trade him". He had an average season last season. After all the .920+ hee put together in front of this defensive cluster eff, he get's a pass. I'm not going to count his sophomore year against him either. He bounced back in a big way towards the end of that season and into the playoffs, so he was forgiven in my eyes. So in all, he's strung together several great seasons for us, and had 1 average season (.910). In front of a declining team to boot! Put this guy on a contending team and he takes them to the promise land. I believe Howard is that good of a goalie. Not 25-30. top 20 on a good season good. He's better than that. With that said, it's going to suck to see him go. I know it's going to come down to it; Howard or Mrazek. The crummy thing about it is...Mrazek isn't going to to have any success with this team. He'll have about as much as Howard had. You'll only go as far as your offense takes you...and at the mercy of your brutal defense (better this year so far...thankfully). When the time comes, I hope he's a good trade, and it's for somewhere he can succeed. Not to some bottom feeding team for a top 6 forward. He's a the top three reason why the playoff streak is still alive: Zetts, Datsyuk, Howie. I hope they treat him right. Then again...Mrazek may end up the trade bait. That will just tick a whole lot of people off won't it. heh A good problem to have, but not at the same time.

I still think they'll hold him back another week or two, just to be safe. Then off to the GRG he goes. Sucks he was injured...he could be sitting in Nestrasils spot right now (not a knock against him or anything).

I feel like Smith has the tools to put it together offensively. I mean, you can see it. The instinct is there. But he hasn't found all the tools in the box with that aspect of his game yet. Defensively, however, he has seemed to put it together, for the most part. He'll likely refine his game the next couple years defensively. He and Dekeyser have good offensive instincts. I think overall, Dekeyser is ahead on both fronts. Dekeyser seems to know when to slap it at the goalie, or off a stick, or off the back boards. Not Lidstrom level, but you can tell he's smart with his shots. Smith has explosive moments, only to get robbed by the goalie. You can't teach those moments, as you just have to be that type of player. Kronwall plays like that as well...but he knows how to capitalize. Smith, from the blueline, tends to just grip it and rip it. His shots never make it to the goalie, let alone a teammates stick, or the backboards. Overall, I think he'll surpass Dekeyser in points once he puts it all together....that IF he ever does. If anything, he's getting to be a stud defensively.

He looks like NOT the Howard from last season. I think he tried too many things at once...complicated his game...it failed. He's back to his aggressive/compact style. Not flashy...but effective. He was trying to be too flashy last season. Not his style...not athletic enough.

There was a letter out recently about the future, prospects and such. Holland was just yappin' away. At one point he says believes Howard will be a top 6-8 goalie during his contract. What do you guys think? I think he's top 8-10 right now. Do you guys think he'll hit that expectation? And also...What does that leave for Mrazek? Howard has obvious FAR exceeded expectations. We were happy at the thought of him hitting top 15. Now it's not too far fetched to think of him as a top 6-8 goalie (I remember Babcock calling him an upper echelon goalie). But we, as a fan base, expect Mrazek to exceed Howard. Are we fooling ourselves? Did we get lucky with Howard? Will we kick ourselves later on by trading Howard away hoping Mrazek is the better goalie? All I know is Howard far, FAR exceeded my expectations. A couple of years ago we thought top 20, and would be glad he'd fit in the top 15. He jumped passed that expectation... Howard, IMO, top 8-10 now. Potential top 6-8 according to Holland. I say he hits it. Why not? But where does that leave room for Mrazek? He just come in and bump Howard down one and make him a top 7-9 goalie? Crazy stuff guys. Howard's a keeper....but Mrazek..../scream!

I get what you are saying. Howard is a consistent goalie in my opinion. 4 seasons. 3 out of the 4 he's been in the top 10, or higher, in every stat....while being a workhorse. Sophomore slump year. Does anyone remember that year? He was a sub .900/ 3.00+ goalie all year...signs the contract...Bam! He's rookie Howard for the rest of the season (with a little bit better rebound control). Goes into the playoffs and plays well. He salvaged that year because he played like the Jimmy we know today the last quarter of the season (there abouts). Makes you wonder if that was his issue all year: "Am i going to get signed? Am I trade bait?" Sign him earlier and I wonder if that second season wouldn't look so bad. But that's just an observation of mine, And something that I cannot ever prove, or we'll ever know. It's written in history now. My point with that is, is he was more than capable that year to play like his first season...his third season and 4th season, but the contract year (and Holland holding out all season) messed with his head. When he got signed...he played like Jimmy Howard (like a top 10 goalie). No wonder he was making a big deal about it this year; not wanting it to get to his head. It's a theory of mine...but look at the stats. It all fits. But back to the thread at hand. He's been getting better every year. I think he peaks in about 2 more years and holds it till about 35.Typical goalie. So 6-8 isn't for fetched. Realistically? He'' probably top out at 8.

Same. I remember the dead wing era too. sigh sigh... lol Howard and Mrazek. Can't really get much better than that. It would be nitpicking at that point. Although...Mrazek hasn't really been tested at the NHL level yet. But he's pretty much a good to go.

I notice people do this when arguing against any goalie. Then you find out that there's back up ahead with 2 or 3 games played. You have to do it with comparable games. Outside his sophomore year, isn't Howard always in the top 10 with his stats? Not to mention he's fighting it out with Quick or Rinne for Workhorse of the year. That's not easy to do I would think. I would place him top 8-10 with those facts alone.

Well...Before he came into the league he was pegged as back up level....maybe he'll reach top 20. The expectations for this kid on HFboards AND here were not very high. I remember it vividly! Now? NHL.com has had articles about him being a top 8 goalie. HFboards talks about him being a top 10 goalie. The tone about him has totally changed in a half of a season. I have no doubts he'll put up another .920+ 2.20 or less campaign. For a guy average 50+ games? That's has to be better than top 15. I mean...Anderson is being put in the top 5 now...and he's putting up similar numbers with 20 games here. 17 games there. Howard and Anderson have about the same about of games played...and Anderson has 8 seasons on him. But he's top 5. /boggle. How we fans come up with goalie rankings is beyond me. *sigh*

Watching game one just made me appreciate Jimmy's work for us even more. To me, he was the number 1 reason the Wings were even in that series. It looks like Quick will be in the same shoes and Jimmy. I thought L.A would have the fore checking ability to break through. I know it's one game. But you can usually get a feel. They are going to struggle like Detroit did against Chicago's defense. What I thought would be a goaltending match in Quicks favor...it's Quick VS Chicago's defense...just like it was for the Wings. Jimmy VS their defense...not the goalie. And unfortunately for Quick...Chicago's offense is faster than their very fast defense. That means a lot of shots of the very high quality variety. Jimmy almost stole the series. Quick is a better goalie, though...He might be able to squeeze them through, but it will be ugly. Then again...Chicago and Crawford may have that Horseshoe tucked somewhere, and get more flukey bounces off the boards/skates in their favor. It may just be their year. /barf

We have a top 8-10 goalie now, who's likely to improve...And a goalie who's projected ceiling is to surpass that. All I can say is I hope Holland play's his card right or we are going to be in for some heartbreak, one way or another, some years down the line. Does Patterson have the ceiling that Howard (although Howard surpassed his projected ceiling) or Mrazek have? If it's anywhere close...we went from bottom of the barrel to stacked pretty quick in the goalie dept.

There was an NHL article after the series. They said Jimmy was pretty much the star of the the series, out of every player. And he out shined Crawford (let's face it...taking away game two, Howard faced more quality shots in one game VS what Crawford saw in the entire series). Other than game two..Detroit couldn't figure out Chicago's defense (not to mention they have been having a hard time scoring all year). On the other side of the coin? Chicago had the Wings figured out game 1. A great defensive game from the Wings sill resulted in many breakaway's, 2-1, 3-1, 3-2...bad line changes. And some turn overs inn front of Jimmy. They were just less than the usual (what we saw this season). Credit to Crawford, though. He made the saves he needed to, to win. But most of the goals against were because he was his own worst enemy. Otherwise, he had it easy this series. Unlike Howard how has to deal with a defense that forgets what color jersey they play for (he had a couple softies, but that happens to the best of them..and his team was doing him no favors). Good thing about Jimmy, though, is I still see him getting better. Stats be damned, this was his best year (his biggest stride was his mental strength IMO). Last year would have rivaled it, but you know..injuries.. A couple more years before he peaks IMO. As for Crawford. I don' think he makes it out of the 3rd round. LA plays a much MUCH better defensive game (mostly because of the payers being older/better). An as much as I think Howard is a top 9-10 goalie....They have Quick, who is a top 1-3 goalie. Howard with an abysmal defense gave Chicago fits (the series was 2.29 Chicago 2.14 Detroit GA) on the score board. Imagine a team that can play defense, with a top 1-3 goalie? Crawford is going to have to play better than he did against Detroit to give his team a chance. He barely could do that against Detroit....and his team outplayed Detroit every game except game 2. A little off track there, but no. Crawford didn't outplay Howard that series. Howard nearly stole the series...That's how much big of a performance he put on.

flip jarnkrok and helm and this is probably the most realistic. Although. I think Flips is asking for 5m. Maybe this year ill humble him.

Over payment for Howard? You're out to lunch on this one. Pay the goalie. Fix the defense and offense the best you can. Howard carried an old washed up vet/rookie team (Dats/Zetts aside) to the playoffs, and into the 2nd round game 7 OT against the best team in the league. A 3 on 1 and a point blank deflection was the only things that beat him that game. You're not going to get a better performance from another goalie (maybe Rinne would have saved the first goal due to shear size, but that's not Howard's fault that Rinne is a monster) in the league. Especially the way he was getting shelled. You ask for your goalie to show up in a game 7? You pay him for it. Howard did just that. Wings just couldn't score; made Crawford look like Quick most of the tike.

what i don't get, while we rip into howard, is that the elites do the same darn thing. Bad games. Get pulled. Turn overs that lead to goals. but for some reason we ignore that (as do all sport fans when they singling out a player...it's almost like selective hearing) and magnify howard's common goalie mistakes...just to justify an argument. or to justify why he's a lower tier. but if quick does it? he gets a pass. lundqvist? pass. rinne? pass. now schneider get's all over these passes (and he has made some boo-boo's this season too). We call these inconsistencies with howard. the other goalies? they are mistakes. I keep reading them here, and over at HFboards....but the double standard doesn't add up/make sense. Does Howard have another set of rules? But what does make sense is the overall season, correct? Why do people judge a player on their mistakes, then call them average..., and these are few,, but in the same breath ignore the many, MANY, awesome feats them have pulled for the team this season? It's like..."you messed up once howard, you turned over the puck and those are inconsistencies I do not tolerate!" " What? Other elite goalies do it too? Oh, those are just gaffs on their part..., you cannot be inconsistent!" Howard: ....... Save % .923 "Is that good enough" ..."No! You are average because of a few bad games, howard. Accept it!" Blown out proportion? Yea...but it sure as hell seems that Howard has to play the puck like Brodeur, or better. Post .920+ every game. 10+SO. If the Wings cannot score more than 2 goals? Who cares...Howard better get us to the 3rd round or better or he's just average at best... i would only call one goalie elite, and that's Lundqvist...and he's even made the gaffs that Howard has over his career...many-a-times. Honestly? If we are sitting here tearing apart a goalie we got in howard...a .consistent .920+ goalie (one season aside)...we could always get bryz, as people still consider him a top 10 goalie and howard barely a top 20, sometimes he doesn't even crack top 25.

Going forward? Defense and signing Howard. Looking at the last 5 seasons has made me realize how fast the defense has dropped. I'm not just talking about players here. I'm talking about coaching. We lost a good coach in 2008. With the same players (couple of depth players notwithstanding), our defense dipped dramatically in 2009. The biggest change there was the coaching change. Throughout this cluster **** in 2010, and 2011...and 2012. We pretty much had a few hero's. One in particular named Jimmy Howard (for some reason we still want to lowball this dudes impact these years and just give all the credit to Lidstrom). Now that he's gone...the defense looks just as bad when pinned in their own zone. Only thing different is that we don't have Lidstrom, when he's on the ice, to get that nice pass out of the zone (or Rafalski). So they pretty much just looking like crap in their own zone even longer. But there they are, in a playoff spot. They aren't getting much offense. And they are top 10 in the GA category (or tied). I highly doubt that's because of the Wings stellar defense. *cough* To me this is Howards best year as a Wing. He's tightened up his game. He's less prone to last minute goals. And I still think he'll get better, as he's only 29. Keep Mrazek in the AHL for a few more years to get him game perfected. From there? Maybe a 1A 1B for a couple of years before the inevitable. As for the defense? Find out who works with who best. Find out your best players and pair them up! What this means is no more Smith/Quincey pairings anymore! Basically it comes down to defense and goaltending for this team for the the remainder of this year, and probably next year, until the kids get their game going. Goaltending is almost as good as it's going to get (I think Howard will peak around 31)...the defense is a mess. Don't mess up Howard's contract..AKA: Don't let him get away/walk.

Is it me, or is Nyquist looking like he's not "clicking". Tartar came up and just "got it", if you know what I mean. Nyquist? It looks like he's stuck playing parameter hockey. And he's struggling to do that effectively. I hope he get's it soon. I like the kid.