Dynheart

What this thread was missing was this: JIMMAH! or HOWIE! or J Ho! You get the point...I don't this the defense really played that bad, or outside there normal selves.. The horrible defensive break downs were always there. We just had the wrong goalie back there. The limited Calgary to 19 shots...heh. Gus needs to step it up. I'd hate to see Jimmy ran into the ground, yet again, this year.

Average, to me anyway, is Goalie's like Theodore. Dubnyk, Pavlec. Gustavsson. Biron. Emery. Ellis. You get the idea. Below average to bad goalies? LaBarbera. Mason. Clemmenson. Garon. Elliott. Budaj (this one is subjective...he's had average seasons). Now. You look at Howard. He puts up awesome stats (slump withstanding). He steals games. He makes big saves. He's keeping the Wings in contention this year (and in his rookie year as well..people see to forget about that), and with respectable stats at that. People predicted he would put up closer to Mason stats with this defense. Instead he steals games. My point? That's not the definition of an average goal tender. Put a goalie in the same ball park as the guys that I listed in the crease 60+ games a season going forward...It wont look pretty. If we call Howard average, we are basically clustering him in with these type of goalies (the top list)...he's much better than those guys.

Howard will get about 4-5 million, at about 4 year contract. Standard stuff. He's getting it done with a inferior team for one. A Lidstrom/Stuartless team, for two. A train wreck of a defensive core/system. He found a way to play with this mess. That a sign of a great goalie. Not so great goalies flounder around and, to be frank, don't get it done. Compare Howard's stats to the "elite"/"Greats". Comparable, and it half the cases, better. And with the this defense (it's not the worst, but no doubt it's got to be bottom 8-10 easily)! That will drive up his price. What I think will drive it back down is his lack of "clutch" factor. This is something any and all players just learn with time. He's been clutch this season. But is he Rinne/Ludqvist clutch yet? I don't think so. But he's not your average joe shmoe goal tender either. In short? This season will make or break Jimmy Howard as a bad ass, or just another good goalie in the crowd. That's my opinion, and I think that's what Holland is waiting on. You don't want to screw your players over.

Yes, no progress. He's still showing symptoms.

Flips/Gus, Datsyuk, Franzen Gus/Flips, Zetts, Brunner (Zetterberg and Brunner have been playing on the same line all season so far) Bert, Helm, Sammy Miller/Tootoo, Abby, Mursak/Cleary Emmerton...we have too many forwards. Kronwall/White Big E/Quincey Kindl/Smith Howie Monster The Defense looks decent. It's up to Babcock to bring out it's potential. The offense, though. You can tell there's a lot of different options you can take. I, myself, would go Flips/Dats/Mule for first line. Gus/Zetts/Brunner for the 2nd. A Bert/Helm/Sammy 3rd line isn't bad either (skill/power/speed. Sammy seems to be a guy who's a jack of all trades). The 4th line. Again, we have that issue with the 4th line. Miller? Excellent winger. I believe Abby is an excellent winger as well, but a mediocre center. But I think he's better than Emmerton, for now. But if he out plays Abby out of center, Abby is playing winger, for sure. That leaves Miller/Cleary/Mursak to fight it out. We have too many forwards, and our 4th line is a potential mess. EDIT: Tootoo? Bring him in when you need him. Although, we may play him simply because of presence. That still leaves too many bodies that can't fill the 4th line.

Since he's a write in candidate, and sitting 5th atm... If the ASG started tomorrow he would be playing. They take the first 6 goalies voted. The fans only ensure who gets to play first on each side (number 1 and 2). But I believe these games are played with 3 goalies on each team, with each goalie playing 20 minutes. If they stick to that formula...he's top 6 atm. EDIT: Unless write-in candidates are not considered...and are there just for show? EDIT 2: Apparently the fans only choose the fate of one goalie...the rest is up to the NHL? ---NOTE: Fans will determine the first 6 players chosen to participate in the 2012 Tim Horton's NHL All-Star Game (3 Forwards, 2 Defensemen, 1 Goalie).---

Poor Jimmy look like he's being over used out there. He made a good save, and slowed the rebound down enough for stuart to save it, but he just looks off so far. Let's hope it was just a 1st period fluke.

EDIT: Bad day = broken sarcasm detector...

I honestly think it will be Kronwall. The man has been stepping his game up every year for the last 3 years. And if it wasn't for injuries, he would have had career years last year or the year before. He's good with the press, he's a good team-mate AND he seems to lead by example...always seems to start the scoring when we need it. I was always in favor of Zetts, but his passion for the game seems to be lacking...or atleast is "looks" like it on the ice. He could be injured, I don't know. I think Kronner will be giving Zetts a run for his money when the time comes. Maybe not a might ducks speech...but remember Pavel is an out going guy. Just because his english is small, doesn't mean he doesn't like to express himself. I'm sure he communicates when they need it in his own goofy way. Sure, it may be hard to understand...but that's what makes him Pavel, and I'm sure that's why the guys in the locker room love him.

I think we are OK with what we have. If anything, Holland should try for a McCarty type player (Skilled/Big/Will stick up for players). Problem with that...McCarty type player = a freak of nature and hard to find. Most tough guys have no skill. I was hoping Bert would be that guy, but he's just a softy anymore. EDIT: Also he needs to add a top 6 winger IMO.

I would agree with you...but that big forechecking team named San Jose... Although they just beat us (Howie played bad) Wings out PLAYED them. The shot count was like 47 to 22 (around there). San Jose was playing great hockey going into that game, and still playing great hockey after that game. Wings managed to keep them around 22 shots. I think the Wings can handle just fine. I think the Bruins just played a fuggin' great game (have they even hit 40+ shots until now?). The Wings Played a well enough game to keep up...we as fans should be happy that the Wings were able to keep up and win, and not buckle to the point where they got dominated (remember the ST.louis game?).

I'm afraid that if he keepis this play up and his contract is up...will he demand more? If he keeps this pace up like he is for the next three years, plus his rookie season (his sophomore season is just that...a sophomore season). I mean he'll be worth it because he'll prove he was consistant/the real deal. But will Holland sign him? You know he doesn't sign big time goalies (I like Howie..hard to come by a good/humble goalie).

He will be fine. He earned himself a stinker. Even Rinne had a horrible game against Edmonton (and his goals were even softer than Howies). Like 3 goals in 8 shots or something like that. It happens to the best of them.

He's been awesome! This is just an observation of mine, but has Howies puck handling skills improved? I mean, he plays it with poise now. Maybe he's learning from Ozzie (top 5 if you ask me when he as playing... very underrated.). I think that's helping too. I can't help but think when he challenges the shooter...he looks like Ozzie. Watch some 2008 Ozzie, then watch Howie this year. Very aggressive! And it works! Last year he would back in into the paint to early. Just a few little Ozzi-isms...Similar puck handling and, the way they challenge the angle/shooter (only diffrence...Howie has a better 5-hole lol).

Boy people here overreact. No, coaching is NOT part of the problem. IF the boys looked disintresed, would they be able to put up 40+ shots a night? And 30+ against Minnesota (that's a difficult task). They want to win, you can see it, but they were snake bitten. Babcock and the coaches are doing what they do, the players get used to the new system/coaches (they are human) and they have to wait for it to gel. At least their forecheck doesn't look as predictable. The D looks more aggressive than recent years... they seem to have some diffrent plays up their sleeves. Thats good. But as far as a diffrent system on the ice, let the players and coaches(2) work it out. It can't all gel together at the same time like some miracle. If this was truely a coaching issue, the Wings would be getting dominated game in and game out (scoreboard or not)... Not skating circles around their opponents most nights. Wait till the first quater is over before /panic. And even then, they can go on a tear and still make it... Look at San Jose. They were out of it for sure until the last quater and they made 2nd friggin place in the league or conference...can't remember heh. (Wings did help them, though). td;dl: Two new coaches, some new players... new systems whatnot... Give more than 12 games for it to gel? Plus 6 games of being snakebitten doesn't mean it's a coach problem.

As much as I love Lids, I can't help but think that this was Dats' team since two years ago. It seems odd to see it that way...but the more I think about it, the more it seems like Pavel just ripped it from Lids' hands. Even after Lids is no longer captain (I'm going to assume Zetts will be captain), I'll probably still feel the same. How do you guys feel?

I'm not saying being captain. I think the room already looks to Pasha to get thinks done. To me, that's basically being frontman, taking the reigns; the big cheese if you will. I see where you guys are coming from, though. And I agree 99%, but even from a marketing stand point....the last year and half has been all Pavel. It's to the point of like "Zetter-who" And that's from both inside and outside the red wings org. That's the only reason why I posted what I posted. With all the marketing AND changes the organization has seen since 2008, heck probably since Stevie-Y left. Who knows.../shrug EDIT: I'm horrible at this forum thing because I don't do it often enough heh. So for give me for any blips or bloops here. I just meant Pavels team on the ice, not in the locker room. I know it would help if I type these things first, but eh, I suck at the forum thing.

I agree 100%. If Ozzie stays healthy, and signs at league minimum...you cannot beat that. He's a proven goalie who knows how to win. Anyone who comes up with the last 2 year arguement (also forgetting '09 play-off run in the process) is either a hater or just ignorant in the fact that he has been injured for most of the '09/'10 season, and ALL of '10/'11 season. Hip injuries, torn groin...and other minor injuries that could nag a goaltender in playing his game. To me, that explains the last 2 seasons. Hell, I give the guy props for the '09 play-off run alone because he was injured the whole run. Sheer heart and will there if you ask me. He stays healthy...signs at league min...best back-up signing possible for the wings.

If he stays 100% healthy this year, I think we will see another '08 duel in net. Healthy competition never hurts, especially in pro sports. It will just make the other goalie hungrier. And who knows, maybe that will trickle down to the skaters.

He'll come back, in my opinion, for one more year. I was thinking he had his last showing in '08...but knowing what he had played through in '09 and tried to play it off as nothing going into last season (his injuries could have really messed his game up) I wouldn't be to suprised if he challenges Howie for the number one spot this year. Lets hope, if he does sign one more year, that he is 100% healthly. I have no doubts the man can play '08 calibur goaltending if he's healthy. We'll see. Injuries can really mess with a goalie, 'specially the hip area...not to mention groin area at the same time? Career ending injuries at this point...realistically. I'm pulling for the guy, though! EDIT: Although I think switching to butterfly style helped his game short-term...in the long run I really think it took it's toll. Going from a true stand-up style to butterfly in the course of 1 year is what probably caused his hip injuries. The groin issues, though...well...we know he has had issues with that his whole career.

Everytime, with the exception of maybe one game, there has been an injured wing player in a bluejackets game. Que the conspiracy theories.

HOnestly, if Jmac could work on those rebounds (he makes Howie look like Jesus in pads) I can see him being a respectable goalie. He's slow, sure, but I think his positioning is phenominal! I guess that's what seperates the AHL goalies from the NHL goalies. Over-all a good period. I think WE carried the play for most of the period, just decided to flex our puck posession abilities instead of shooting. The jackets were going balls-to-the-wall shot crazy when they were in our D zone.

My problem with Howard is that he plays his position like if was a pure stand up goalie. We know how aggressive Ozzie is, but he's more old school (the few left in the NHL). Meaning is more of a stand-up goalie. So being aggressive as Ozzie is, he is still on his skates, and can recover from a a rebound. Howie...Howie challeges much more aggressive than Ozzie does! And he's in butterfly when he does it! So the challenge to the face off circle, butterfly and hope it hits you thing isn't working. Watch most of the good butterfly goalies, they play ontop of the crease.., so that can actually recover from a rebound. If you notice, when Howie is on his game...he's playing in the crease and kicking the rebounds to the corner. For some reason he thinks playing goalie in the face off circle will reaaaaly cut them angles off. Thing is, he's is own worst enemy. He's good for the first shot most of the time. Most. But after the first shot, he's trying to flop like a fish on the top of the face off circle hoping to pull a Hasek. If he would just stay put in the crease like most butterfly goalies, I think he woulb be awesome. He has great reaction time with his kick saves. His glove hand is amazing. He's also pretty good with his blocker. His five-hole...ehhhhh, but every goalie has some type of weakness. I hope they really re-work his game in the off-season. I really think he has potential.

Why not, though? He made key saves tonight. Two out of the three was an open man...point blank...with time to shoot...in the slot no-less. If you expect those oppertunities to be a routine save then you obviously have crazy expectations. Third goal, meh...it stunk. But he made atleast 4-5 sure goal saves tonight. The wings could have easly lost this game if he didn't make key saves (team moral is a huge thing in hockey...or any sport for that matter).

You know...some of you people really do NOT think. So Osgood let in 3 goals out of 21 shots. Guess what...He faced the more dangerous shots agaist out of the two goalies tonight. 3 out of 21...YOu watch the game and throw out a stat like that...you did watch the game, right(Ozzie haters)? Two goals he had no chance on...3rd goal, well...stuff happens. But you are honestly going to sit there and type crap like "3 goals in 21 shots...normal form" crap, atleast know what you're talking about. It's funny really. Ozzie could face 20 shots, 15 of them could be odd man rushes (2-1/3-1s), let in 3 goals and you'll sit there and say "3 goals in 20 shots. I will give you Howie has been facing tipped shots and off his players skaes shots recently, but only recently (hasn't been happening for the last month and a half). Ozzie faced, what, 3 tip/redirections tonight. Zero went in. The end of the day, it's about the quality of the shots, not the quanity... Even though he faced more shots, Khabby had it easy compared to Ozzie.