Dynheart

Didn't Babs say he wont pair Dats and Zets together because they are both natural centers? Dats maybe, but I think Zets is a better winger, imo. It's Babs, though...

That's the gists really, and it's quite depressing. Not because I'm some blind Ozzie fan, but because what if we do have a Hasek inccident? Or Howie gets hurt? This time we have a COLD goalie to back us up, and not a game ready goalie. To me, that's what's depressing the most. EDIT: Depressing was a bad choice of words. Not gonna /wrist over it, but it's Disappointing! There we go.

Still doesn't change the fact that the wings need their back up game ready. What if Howie gets ran through in the crease, get's injured? It happened to Legace, and freak accidents do happen. Babs needs to be prepared. Plus, how many times have the fans said "if it wasn't for Ozzie? (especially plays-offs)" Both goalies need time on the ice. And with any sport, if you don't use it, you lose it. I agree with some here that if we make the play-offs, not playing Ozzie, even just to get some of the load off of howies back, will come back and bite them. I do agree that Howie will be the go to guy for the Play-oofs, though. This is my opinion, though, and as Ozzie doubter for a couple of years, I;ve leanred to never count the guy out. Just give the guy a chance and rest Howie.

I think the point is not how many goals he's letting up, but the kind of goals. Since the break he's let in alot of five-holes, some really bad short side goals (these are the basics, right? I mean we get on Ozzie because of it). Before the break I heaven't seen him let up a five-hole or short side goals. Atleast his rebound control is improving. He actually deflects them to the corner..well, 70% of them. Better than 1% heh

I believe the goalie situation has been handle poorly this season. Jimmy was on earlier in the season, but he's been inconsistant since the break. He maybe young and can handle the workload like Marty does, but one thing that people totally under estimate...no it's not physical toughness, it's mental toughness. A couple of bad games for a rookie, especially one he maybe resposible for (bad goals)...they start to add up, and doubt sets in. Babcock should have rested Howie a few games when he was ON, not when he's slumping, but even so, the kid isn't getting a break when he's slumping. That will have a lasting effect for the rest of the season, garanteed. With that doubt/question in the back of his head...going into the play-offs, if we get there, will spell doom for the kid...most likely be branded a "he's a good goalie who isn't a pressure player". Once that stigma sticks, it's hard not to think about it. This is where Ozzie, IMO, will probably be one of the best goalies in modern hockey. Sure he's a small guy (less net covered), sure he's not as athletic due to the fact he's been a stand-up goalie for 95% of his career (which I might add going butterfly was a bad idea for him...that's just me, though), but the man has heart AND has mental toughness like no other. Nothing bothers this guy, be from critics or fans. When they doubt him, he has the mental toughness to prove people wrong (which you would think people on this board, and most of the fans in general whould learn to never count him out...he's proven people wrong so many times in his career). This is why he's such a good play-off goalie. He's plays better with the pressure on him...that's how some people are wired. Just look at his stats (do NOT compare his stats from 10 years ago to todays goalies...he was above average, and pretty close to top 7 when you compare him to goalies of that era. Anyway, my point is, play Ozzie more and give Howie a rest. Give Howie the start in the play-offs? Probably. The torch needs to be passed eventually, but if we run into an other Hasek situation, you want a warmed up and oiled goaile ready to play. Right now? All Ozzie has seen is a few games in releif (which fans want him to win us a 5-1 deficit by the time he comes in) and like 1 start in almost 3 months? That's bad goalie managegment imo. /shrug

This is where I believe Babcock has dropped the ball. Howard has been showing signs of slowing down. A cold spell in inevitable. You need Ozzie, who is a proven goaltender, to get some games so he can run with it as well. Throwing Osgood into games where the team is getting totally owned is NOT good goal managment. Why not play the goalies 50/50 the rest of the way. Get both goalies running on all cylinders...see who get's hot. When you run into a situation like today, or against the islander (or was it oilers?) where you need Ozzie to take over, you want him well oiled. Not sitting and taking routine practice shots. But alas, most here will probably tear my head off for even thinking the goalies should be played 50/50 the rest of the way.

I just wanted to reply to this. There are 2 aspects to the game of hockey (sports...anything really), one being the physical and the other being the mental. Ozzie wasn't gifted in the size dept. for a natrual goalie, nor does he do it with athletics. It's all in the positioning...when he's off just a TAD, it's in. He's that small...The other part, the mental aspect, Ozzie excels in. Some people feed off of the adrenaline, others buckle. Ozzie is that player who needs that level of competion to play better. You know what I'm talking about, this just doesn't pertain to hockey, or even sports in general. You also cannot emulate that level no matter what you say or do until it's in your face. Ozzie is probably one of the best goalies in the league when it comes down to that level. Why? Too many jsut buckle under that type of pressure, he doesn't. The coin goes both ways, though. You need 5 compotent players in front of you, to help you succeed (see game 6 and 7 in last years play offs).

Just ignore him. He obviously knows nothing about the goaltending position. It's probably the most difficult position in professional sports. He thinks a guy who's being out of action for 10 games has to come in and save this cluster f***. The guy just hates on Ozzie when we lose, and sucks his you know what when he wins...May as well vote him for president if he wins another cup.

I'm sick of people stating stuff like this like it's fact. I played the goaltending position for 13 years before I shattered my knee cap in a car accicent. It is rust...Ozzie may have a 5 hole problem, but lack of focus it's not. You need to get a rhythm...end of story. Pro or not, you don't play for 3-4 games, that throws you off. 10 games? Christ! Then thrown into this mess? I just wanted to say this because people state crap on this forums like it's easy. It's not easy to come back from a 10 game break (practice does NOT count), and expect to play like you did in the play offs. Not to mention your team is leaving BOTH goalies out to dry. Again I speak from experience. Pro or no, you need to get things oiled. Anyway, you'll probably find a way/reply to discredit anything I've said here. BTW...we got shut out. Howard, the "saviour", still would have lost this game. The team sucked. The defense sucked. The Offense sucked...in the end the goalies sucked, but not because it's their fault, though. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The goalie is better off with a 5 on 0 then having 5 people on your team not clicking, turning over the puck or screening you or just making your like difficult. The wings, with the way the played today, should have bowed out in the defensive zone...Goalies would have had a better chance to make saves.

I remember you typing this s*** last year when Ozzie had an off season, then was all over him during the play-offs. Most likely the case the season before as well. People hate on Ozzie just because, then when he wins a cup then people love him.

Your reply dosen't suprise me. Throw Broduer out there in this mess I garantee you he would have been pulled just as fast. People need to realize this is not a goaltending issue. With no defense you may as well not have a goaile, seriously. And just incase you didn't know, which you probably do, Ozzie hasn't played for 10 games. Hard for a cold/rusty goalie to come in this mess and save any type of moral victory.

So you are saying, regardless of position, that if a player is HOT you play them instead? So if Lebda is on a hot streak, defensivlely not offensively, you would take him over a 6 time norris trophey winner? Sounds like hog wash to me.

I agree. For the most part, the people here have the mentality of "What have you done for me lately"...not..."What have you done for us in your career." If we make the play-offs, and Ozzie gets the nod...and takes us to the finals again, you'll see these very same haters wanting him to win the Conn Smythe. In the end, I agree you ride the hot goalie, but there HAS to be a happy medium. Then you throw Ozzie in there, rusty/cold against a hot team and people will say "I told you so"...I just don't get it.

I feel bad for both goaltenders atm. First, Howard...not his best showing, but the team is playing awful...AWFUL...Not to mention that Babcock hasn't given him much rest. As for Ozzie, I feel bad for the guy just for the fact that he has hardly played. Hardly plays before Chicago game (we get owned but he gets blamed for the loss), then now. Basically it's like: "I know you haven't played for 10 games...your cold, most likely rusty...and our team is getting ******* owned hardcore. Here's your chance, Osgood, to show your stuff! Did I mention that our team cannot play right now?" Basically...he's gonna be picked on here on these forums just because it's Ozzie. Meh. I wouldn't be suprised if the team moral is at a low atm.

While I agree you need to play the hot goaltender, you just can't let your play-off goalie sit and rott. Ozzie needs to get a rythym going...His last 2 starts (Nashville and Chicago I believe) he was great. So he let in 3 goals against chicago...out of 35...and he was COLD. Let's not forget Howard who also let in 3 with less shots against. Regardless, it is what it is...and if Babcock thinks Ozzie can post a shut out, or let in one goal out of 30+ shots after sitting for 2 weeks? He has some crazy expectations. I can also garantee that if Howard was getting 1 game every 4-6 starts, his stats whouldn't be anywhere near what they are now. Rythym for a goalie is THAT important. I just hope Babcock starts getting Ozzie in there more, and not blame him for a loss (like he did against chicago...said he took the wind out of us which is funny because we were getting out shot 2 to 1 if not more in the first and Ozzie only let in 1...and the Offense didn't produce...in short, Chicago dominated us because the team couldn't get their act together). I've seen it in this thread already, and I'll just repeat it...goal tending (yes this also includes Ozzie) is NOT the issue. First quater of the year it was the defense. Now that's pretty much owning now (something like a 92% PK now the last 60ish penalties) our offense took a dip. We lead the league in being shut out...6 times...that 6 times the Offense cost us points, not the goalies. In the end, Ozzie does have an argument. Although I may not agree with this method, I believe there's justification.

Howie has been outstanding so far, but he still scares me. He's like the opposite of Ozzie. Ozzie is awesome positionally, has awesome rebound control, and if he let's up a bad rebound he usually makes the save...but he's got a bad five hole...and 95% of his shots are straight in to the net. Howie on the other hand is quite the opposite. He's also very sound positionally but has awful rebound control, and after the initial shot, he's down and out 3 feet out of the paint. So it's like with Ozzie (mainly close shots) he gets sniped pretty often. most likely because he's such a tiny goaltender playing butterfly (he was better before he went butterfly IMO) and get's scored on the initial shot. Howie let's up insane rebounds (D has been awesome in front of him btw) and let's in goals that are from those rebounds. I will say that one thing Howie does infact have of Ozzie is size and lateral movement (Ozzie rarely puts him self in a position to really need lateral movement, though...but Ozzies lateral movement is awful). Not so much as Howie is faster laterally, but because the guy can do the slipts better than Van-Dam, and at a drop of a hat. All in all, Howie is the man. I believe Ozzie would be at this point too if he actually had more than 1 game inbetween 4-6 games to get some rythym...and have played that position for many years before I tore, you guessed it, ACL, rythym is probably one of the goaleis most important part of the game. If you don't use it, you lose it; and no, practice is not the same. Lastly, as far as Howie goes...if Ozzie can teach him how to stay in position after an inital save, rebound control and most importantly the mental aspect of the game (which IMO Ozzie is the best goalie in the league when it comes to staying focused...hardly get's frustrated if at all), I believe Howie will be a top 5 goalie for years to come...my only concern is that the wings don't really include great goaltending in their system...if he's gets TOO good, we're looking at 4-5mil cap hit. Hmm...something to think about?

I believe we'll win this game, but it'll be close. I say 3-2 Wings! I'd also like to add that I'm proud of our team. To stay in contention while having missing 90% of our star players and some very important KEY players for a good part of 2 months? This "adversity" has had a chance for the prospects to get some good NHL practice...and I'm impressed to say the least. Janik, IMO, is going to be a solid second line D-man. Abby is going to be an awesome grinder...kinda reminds me of Maltby back in his early years. Ritola is getting better and better with every game... ... Then there's Meech....... Lastly I have a question for you Wing fans. Even though he had a shakey game when he came back from being injured, has anybody noticed that our forecheck has gotten better...much better since Flips came back? I knew he was a solid player, but him being out of the line up for awhile made me appreciate him even more. Such a great center, awesome on face-offs. He's like a Datstyuk/Zetterberg hybrid...then again...maybe I'm seeing things?

This can go either way. Both goaltenders in this game are on a hot streak right now...with the exception of one game, I think Howie has only allowed, at most, 2 goals a game...with some just letting in 1. Goaltender match for sure IMO. I say 2-1 wings. I'd also like to comment on the injuries. Although it's hurting us short term, this is starting to look like a blessing in disguise. With 95% of our vets on the verge of retirement, we need out AHL pals to get some quality time in the NHL, which in the long run, will end up being for the best. Sure our record is not what we are used to seeing this time of year, but it's still pretty damn good considering the mass amounts of injuries to key players. They been grinding out points pretty well IMO considering the situation they're in...All I can say is it's on come the end of janurary (everybody SHOULD be back with the exception of Franzen...maybe Williams).

Age. Shoulder injury...Man area getting worked over by a hockey stick...I don't think that 99% of the people on these forums realize how that can effect your skating and shot. Top that with him being 40? Just be thankful he's still an elite defenseman...that's just been downgraded to human.

Seems like we always seem to have a major brain fart for 15ish games every season. Thing is, it's always at the end of the season, not the beginning, and that's what scares me. For the most part we are dominating, just not having ANY puck luck whatsoever. Are we going through our "we suck phase" or is that still to come? No puck luck, 3-4 KEY players, not just a random player in the roster, but key players...injured...This is going to be a rough season. I still believe we will make the playoffs no problem, just maybe a 6-8th seed.

I cannot see all the Ozzie hate here. The first goal was on the defense. When you have 4 guys covering 1 guy, and the goaltender facing 3 calgary players, he covered his side of the net. No reason why the defense shouldn't be the blame for that goal. The second...well...ping pong bouncy bouncy. All these people here think goaltending is easy...it's not. "Oh all he had to do was jump across the crease, contort his arm in an abnormal position to make that save! Osgood sucks!" If your offense isn't getting it done, and we lose 2-0, 1-0 it will still be the goaltenders fault. People will nick pick what he should have done to prevent that goal so we could take it into OT to get atleast a point. IMO, 1 goal was all D, that shot would have went in on any goalie. Impossible one timer to stop. The 2nd goal...well, he could have saved that, but look at it this way. If he went into the butterfly to cover the five hole, and the same play happened, the guy would have picked an other spot to shoot, and prolly still go in because the puck was everywhere. Hard to read and commit to a shot that bouncing all over the place. My guess he was waiting for the puck to settle down before commiting. Unfortunately he wasn't fast enough to make a point blank five hole shot. Flukey goal imo.

Not justifying anything. I said I went back and watched some videos throuch unbiased eyes and said I was wrong...I'm not aloud to do that on the internet? Hell, I'm aloud to do so when I fook up out side of the forums and people forgive you, but not here? So I'm just digging myself in a deeper hole when I said I was wrong. Not only does this fan base expect perfection from the team (mostly we are all spoiled), but the fan base must be too it seems.

No, just spoiled, and I admitted it in a pervious post. Watched the Red Wings for 25 years and for a good 15 years of those 25 I was used to seeing the best 2 way players to touch the ice. Maybe it was Bowman, maybe it wasn't. I was comparing him unfairly to some of the best 2 way players in the game the last 15 years (who happened to play for Detriot). Wrong of me? Without a doubt, but it's no better or less than what this fan base expects. Perfection. And for the record I went and youtubed some vids of Hossa, not comparing him to Yzerman, Zets, Dats to name a few, and yes he was a responsible 2 way player (look I admited I was wrong...something that 99% of the people here never do). I still think he shoots way to much and doesn't pass enough (saw that in the videos). I like Hossa, you guys act like I hate him. I don't. I don't blame him for the cup loss (that was a team effort/injuries). I think he'll have a great career over in Chicago. I was just stating that with Chicago clickin' so well atm, adding Hossa to the lines might disburb that clickin', ya know? EDIT: And to the poster above me, it's not about him leaving lol. I have said this in about 3 of the post now in this thread.

Wow did I wrong you in an other life? I gave an opinion, you're more than welcome to disagree but resorting to personal attacks? If I'm wrong I'll admit it, but I'm not basing this off of when he was in Det, or even the Pens, but his whole career. And before anybody screams "OMG you don't have to hate him because he left detroit"!!! Not true, Always liked Hossa, just think he's a bit selfish with the puck if you ask me. I wish him the best of luck over there. EDIT: I guess I've been spoiled when it comes to 2 way players watching red wings my whole life then. But what ever. I wasn't nasty with my posts, just posting an opinion which I guess no one really respects. I guess "agree to disagree" lost its way online at some point. Ran over my dog? Never owned a dog.

I know lines need changing...when it's warranted, though. Right now Chicago is tearing it up. 7 in a row? They are clickin' atm. Adding a superstar player (and until I see it, is a puck hog who thinks to shoot only, not pass) who plays a selfish game if you ask me (a 2 way game? he was horrible defensivley here in Det, and his previous teams as well) will disturb that. And as far as the injury statement, I held no ill will towards him for his playoff performance after I found out he was injured. But I'm not basing my opinion off of just 1 play off performance. I'm talking years of watch hockey, and I've seen Hossa play many a times through out his career. He's a shoot first regardless of whos wide open type player, and the way the Hawks are playing I think adding that tye of player will disturb the chemistry they have now. As far as Bowman goes, he never touched a line until it wasn't performing. All lines are clicking with the hawks...that's all I'm saying. And like I said in my last post...we'll see.