Jake Ryan

Good catch. I didn't know that! But that's reinforces my point.

Well, we've got this argument: Holmstrom has better hands than Helm. Really, Helm scored 4 goals on the 4th line and Holmstrom scored 2 goals on the 1st line and power play last playoffs. REJECTED. Holmstrom is a better passer than Helm. Type in "Holmstrom Pass" into youtube or TRY to find a nice pass from Holmstrom on video somewhere. REJECTED. Neither of them are known for their passing. Holmstrom's bigger than Darren Helm. ACCEPTED. Because of this, he's also slower, easier to play defense against, and a bigger euro ***** than he'd be if he lost some weight. Darren Helm - Faster, Tougher, more aggressive, BETTER. Enough said. This is a stupid argument. Anyone who thinks that Darren Helm should play behind Tomas Holmstrom at this point in their respective careers is just NOT WATCHING. That's all there is to it.

Bowman gave that line a lot of time when they were in their primes. Maltby and Drapes saw a regular shift and plenty of PK time. I do remember the crowds cheering for other players, but I can't remember the crowd being as loud and excited as it has been for Helm the last two years. He's got something special. Why people want to downplay it on here is beyond me. The HHO is really tough to get rid of, I guess.

Exactly. People act like Holmstrom is making the Norris trophy winner, the Selke trophy winner, and the Conn Smythe trophy winner better players. Ha! I will give you that Holmstrom served a purpose IN THE PAST. I'm not trying to discredit what he has done IN THE PAST. All I'm saying is that he's NOT doing what he did in the past. He's washed up. Time to demote his ass and move on to our youth, AKA Darren Helm.

There's a reason most teams DO NOT value this "skill". Holmstrom is not valueable to the Wings anymore. Not one team in the NHL would trade for him, even if his salary was league minimum. He's a has been.

Holmstrom is NOT a better puck passer, puck handler, shooter, or anything better than Helm. That's hogwash. Holmstrom gets to play with better players. That's all there is to it. And I'd like to see that changed. Holmstrom doesn't make Zetterberg and Datsyuk better. I think Helm could.

Ok, Finnish Wing. At least you're willing to compromise. I like what you're getting at. Just keep Ninety-Sux AWAY FROM Z, Dats, Cleary, Filppula, Franzen, Williams, Helm, Leino, Abdelkader, and Bertuzzi. Let him Poison Draper and Maltby all he wants, but keep him away from the rest of the players. I agree with you there. (I wasn't talking about Cleary, btw. You know that!) P.S. Did you see that play Cleary made in game 1 where he stopped it and backhanded it in front of the net all while he was doing a 360? The goalie mad a great save, but that was some serious hand-eye coordination from Cleary.

I don't think you need to defend this argument, bro. The number 99 is retired throughout the entire league! What other athlete has ever had their number retired from the entire league? Gretzky did more for hockey than anyone else has ever done for hockey. Whether Pocklington and other NHL brass had a hand in that success is beyond what I've seen so far. Perhaps they all were part of a play, and Gretzky was the lead actor with Pocklington and some others directing. That could very well be. Either way, I'm glad they did what they did. Hockey is awesome.

If Helm got to play with Datsyuk and Zetterberg 15 minutes a game and on the power play, you really don't think he could score 80 points? I guess I might be placing too much faith in Helm. I just know that the crowd went nuts every time Helm was on the ice the last two playoff seasons. And there was a reason for it. He was making awesome plays. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttrWFt-SabQ...feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoNu5yo-Rw...feature=related LISTEN TO THE CROWD AND ANNOUNCERS ON THE THIRD LINK. Why don't people want this type of play on Zetterberg and Datsyuk's line? WHY? I can't understand it for the life of me. Why do people want to see a slow, ineffective, one dimensional sissy skating with the two best players on the team when they could have someone like Darren Helm making plays to open up ice for Pavs and Z? If Babcock doesn't recognize this, then he's an idiot.

Pocklington was a genius for getting rid of all his stars the second they turned primadonna. The oilers had a dynasty for a decade, and then hockey changed. It went from free-for-all, 4" wide goalie pads with stand-up goalies to tight, defensive minded, and butterfly goalies with huge pads. Gretzky in his prime would not do well in today's NHL. I'm thoroughly convinced of that. Watch Gretzky's highlight videos. He is clearly playing in a different era of hockey. The goals come much easier and in a much sloppier fashion.

THIS.

Yah, cause only Leino can do that. NO player other than Brett Hull can score 80 points on a line with Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

2.25 million is a lot for a bencher. I figure we wear out Holmstrom during the regular season and sub Abdelkader for him at the start of the playoffs.

Helm-Zetterberg-Datsyuk Cleary-Filppula-Franzen Bertuzzi-Williams-Leino Holmstrom-Draper-Abdelkader Better? Who's out once Helm comes back. That's an interesting question.

Helm-Zetterberg-Datsyuk Cleary-Filppula-Franzen Bertuzzi-Leino-Abdelkader Matby-Draper-Holmstrom/Eaves

As long as Babcock keeps him on the 4th line with scrub wingers (AKA Maltby and Holmstrom), then Helm will be a good 4th liner. If Babcock pulls his head out and puts Helm with Datsyuk, we might see Helm blossum into a 30 goal/80 point player. The tools are there for Helm to do that. ACG thinks Helm doesn't have any hands. I've seen nothing that would support that statement. He's put away most of his breakaways and has scored goals when he's gotten chances. Helm is a good player, but could be a great player if they gave him a chance to play with great players. If Zetterberg and Datsyuk can make Holmstrom a 25 goal/60 point guy, what do you think they can do with Helm? I'd like to find out.

Helm - Zetterberg - Datsyuk

The problem is that he's NOT out of the line-up when he's not healthy, apparently. (See last year's cup loss)

"Net Presence" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Holmstrom is anything BUT net presence during 5 on 5 play. He's 2 seconds behind the play.

Anyone who thinks Holmstrom is a better hockey player than Helm at this stage in their respective careers is just fooling themselves. This should be a unanimous decision for all who watched last year's playoffs.

Exactly! Abdelkader, Filppula, Helm, Leino, Tatar, etc. We've got talent, but we choose to let Ninety-Sux chew up ice time. It was old last year. Now it's just annoying.

Well, you are one of the few non-HHO'ers around here that can actually comprehend what comes through your retinas. Most of the people on here just stick their hands in the air and yell "Homer" at the top of their lungs no matter how bad he is playing. If you try and point out that the numbers don't match up with their defense of homer, then you get the "invaluables" argument. Then if you try and point out that getting cross checked in the back really isn't that much of a benefit to the team or isn't a benefit at all, you're in for it. At that point, you just don't understand hockey and aren't a true Red Wings fan. Fortunately, I never had an HHO. I liked Tomas Holmstrom back when he was playing well for the Red Wings. But as of right now, he just hurts them. So I have no problem with Babcock canning that guy. But Babcock's HHO cost the Wings a cup and continues to plague the team. We'll see if he can lose his first. That should help a lot of the others on here lose their HHO's.

But it's better not to see "what if" and give Helm a chance based on the production he has given the Wings in his limited opportunity, right? It's better to keep letting Holmstrom POISON the top line, correct? Give Ninety-Sux 4 years and 10 million more because you know he's going to "get it back", right? I just want to be sure I understand your logic. Helm 4 goals and 1 assist playing with the 4th line. Holmstrom 2 goals and 5 assists playing with the first line AND power play units. I can't believe that Red Wings fans don't want to see Helm up with Datsyuk and Franzen. I just can't believe it.

You cannot call that turtling. Didn't you see the fear in Murray's eyes? For real, it's almost laughable how people think Tomas Holmstrom is tough. The guy is one of the biggest sissies in the NHL. If you watch closely, you can see Murray hold a few punches back as he gives a "are you for real" look to Tomas because he doesn't want to anihilate the sissy cowering in front of him. I can't wait til the 2.25 million the Wings are wasting on Ninety-Sux clears up. That will be a good day for the Wings.

Just for you, Doc. I would like to introduce you to Darren Helm. You obviously don't watch the games, so watch this clip so you can get a taste of an effective Detroit Red Wings player.