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I honestly can't speak to Mayfield's defense outside of the scouting reports. Assuming the reports are true, he is a great shut-down dman. Bringing up Marshall does more to prove my point. The Wings don't have a shut-down dman in their system that projects to be top-4.

Comparing ppg between a shut-down dman and a skilled forward? This discussion is officially ridiculous. Mayfield's USHL team didn't have a good season, so his plus minus is expected to be low. The team needs to be taken in to account in using that statistic. The Wings are lacking top-4 dmen in the system, especially shut down dmen. If you think these players are easy to come by in the later rounds, you are incorrect.

Lashoff seems to have the tools to be a 5-6, but not much more. Just from looking at the Wings prospects, I think it is pretty obvious that the d prospects need to be strengthened through the draft this year. Personally, I'd prefer a shut-down dman but I'd be fine with someone with an offensive upside if they are available (and play d well).

The Wings are very weak in defensive prospects, especially in shut-down defensemen. Other than Smith, I don't think any of the dmen in the Wings system have the ability to be in the top-4. Almqvist has a chance to be very good, but he is projected to be an offensive defensemen. As we're seeing this year (and looking into next year), getting a good NHL top-4 defenseman is difficult. I don't think the Wings need to draft a shut-down dman in the first round, but it is a weakness in the Wings system that needs to be addressed.

In more than half of the mock-drafts I've seen, he has been projected to go in the first round. Obviously, it would be nice to grab a player that is projected in the top-20 that falls to the Wings position, but that isn't likely. Picks 25-40 are often mixed based on what a team needs, and I think the Wings could use a shut-down dman in their system. I'm not sold on Mayfield by any means, but I don't agree with the posters who believe the Wings need to pick a skilled forward in the first round.

And you as a Red Wings fan should also know that. Therefore, they don't need to pick a skilled player in the first round. Most of the time first round picks are not high-risk and the Wings can afford to wait. I'd rather pick a stay at home dman that is a promising top four player than one who needs more development to be a top six forward. That is what the later rounds are for.

I would agree with you if the Wings had a top-10 pick, but the better skill players all go within the top-10. I'm fine with the Wings picking a shut-down dman in the first round if he is projected to be a good shut-down dman in the NHL. The Wings need players to make it to the NHL and not be fringe players, regardless of role. IMO the Wings are just as likely (or more likely) to find a skilled forward in the other rounds (not round one) than the are at the bottom of the first round. Therefore, picking a shut-down dman is not a wasted pick. If Biggs is available, I want the Wings to pick him, but he will probably go earlier. EDIT- All of the skilled players that are near-ready NHLers are taken before the Wings will pick. Any top-line talents will likely have to be a high-risk player, and that should occur in later rounds.

Anyone but him (or Burrows).

Burrows is an embarrassment.

Thornton is a beast.

Boston just made Van look silly.

Boston needs to keep this up.

Most of those PIMS are from fighting or (undeserved IMO) misconducts. Konopka didn't have 300 PIMs composed of minors. Also, that does not address McCormick. Konopka and McCormick are both great PKers as well, so they wouldn't hurt the team in that regard. If anything your statistic favors these players because they can PK well. More in response to the posters that haven't been to the website in the OP to looks at the other teams who are nominated for best enforcing team than you specifically. The Pens and Bruins are both in running for this award.

The team currently second in voting for the Best Enforcing Team is the Boston Bruins. They have a good model for enforcing. Thornton is their main enforcer, and he can also play, while Lucic, Horton, McQuaid, etc can hold their own against most MW's. I don't think there is evidence that enforcing well translates into team success or failure. I do believe that having an enforcer would allow players like Abdelkader to play tougher knowing someone has their back. Can someone here who is against McCormick/Konopka/Prust-type enforcers explain to me how their addition to the team as a replacement for Miller would hurt the Wings in 2011-2012 (holding all other roster changes equal)?

If you've read my posts concerning this topic before, I have never implied causation. The post was in response to a poster saying the Wings had the most cups despite being the worst enforcing team. I intended the comment to be slightly ridiculous because the poster's claim was ridiculous. I think most posters here can see I wasn't implying the Wings need an enforcer, especially if you see my first post in this thread. Now you obviously are anti-enforcer and only enter these threads to pick away at pro-enforcer arguments. What is your view on the subject of worst enforcing team? Edit- I don't want bring up science, but my post was using a counter-example to disprove the claim implied by the poster. Therefore, showing the Wings weren't the worst enforcing team in the years they won the cup is sufficient to disprove the implied claim that the Wings win the most cups while having the worst enforcing team.

I think a lot of it is because some of the posters on here only watch the Wings. While this is fine, I don't see how someone can make a valid argument for or against an enforcer if they don't watch the other 29 teams in the league outside of their games with the Wings.

That isn't the discussion. In fact, the award mentioned in the OP is a regular season award. How many games did DMac play during the playoffs in his cup-winning seasons(outside of 08)? In 08 Drake played, and DMac played during the earlier cups. No one here is suggesting the Wings carry someone with as much skill as Downey. We want someone better, and there are better players available. Even if the player only played during the regular season, it would still be an upgrade especially if the player can be within 5 points of Miller (which Konopka and McCormick can) and add a dimension the Wings lack. EDIT- The original point still holds. The Wings haven't won a cup recently without a rostered enforcer.

How many of the recent cups have come without an enforcer on the team? I'll save you the time- the answer is zero.

What about McCormick or Konopka? They play almost as well as Miller, and can fight. The Wings didn't waste money in 08 when they have Downey, McCarty, and Drake (to a lesser extent).

It is true. It's not a huge concern if the players don't mind. With that said, the players would play 'tougher' with an enforcer to have their back, and I think that would increase the Wings' chances of winning (not that they can't without one). That's why I'm all for McCormick or Konopka.

Enforcing isn't about picking on players your own size- it's about seeking retribution. Good on Lucic for doing that.

It's been happening all season. Do something borderline if you're an enforcer- misconduct- but if you aren't then it's a hockey play. Hopefully this isn't like when Scott got thrown out in the first round- Bieksa fights a non-fighter just after Scott is out.

Thomas is a beast. You don't see a goalie get a hit too often.

Please let the Bruins increase the lead and Thornton fight someone.

First, I hope that Horton is okay. I've grown to really like his play this year. With that said, the hit was late but it was not blindside or to the head. Maybe I didn't see what you saw, but what did you see (other than the sheer impact of the hit) that would lead you to want a 20+ game suspension?