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Probably should just start another thread on this, but where/what level do you play newfy?

April fools day was a few months ago...

I was upset about that called-off goal for a long time- May deserved that one. One specific time I can remember May protecting us from 'getting destroyed' is the game against Columbus around Christmas (I was there). Boll was taking runs at all of our skilled players. May asked him to off the faceoff and Boll refused. Boll then ran Raffy, and May forced him to go. I think most of us will agree that Philly is a tough team; however, Colton Orr took runs at every player on their team over multiple games with no retribution (Asham and he eventually fought). This doesn't happen to the Wings often, but the chances of it occurring only increase without a tough-guy. I'm probably derailing this thread too much. I agree that the variables are large. However, I believe that most of them are determined by who is the better player- ie the better player will get more ice time, play more games, etc. It's not a big deal though- I'd be happy if either one (or both) did well enough to have a player shirt made of them. :beerbuddy: Was Callahan playing on the first line and PP last year? I remember reading that he was going to see increased ice time last year, but I didn't see where he ended up.

I think what he was trying to say is that it's not fair for Abby and E to be expected to pick up the enforcing that May had last year. They are not enforcers (or close to being heavyweights), and they shouldn't be the toughest players (fighting wise) on the team. Hopefully the Wings will invite a couple players to camp and have them fight (no pun intended) for the 13th forward. Heaten, have you thought about that friendly wager I mentioned in the Chicago trade thread? Back on topic- Callahan is shaping up to be a good prospect. Hopefully next year he can continue to develop his offensive game and get 30+ goals. As much as I hate Tootoo, I think Callahan can develop a game very similar to his.

Great post. Ritola has the tools, but he's far from putting them together like Flip, Huds, etc.

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The question is, would we have an enforcer?

I would be willing to bet that there is a significant, positive correlation between how many points a players scores in the AHL and how many points they score in the NHL. To say there isn't would be similar to saying that junior point totals have no bearing on a players eventual offensive development. You are picking out exceptions- there are plenty- not the general trend. I didn't suggest that Mursak or Tatar would be spending any time in the NHL this year. I do believe that Mursak will be the first call-up though. Next year, they will both be competing for roster spots if they continue to develop. Abby will not be sent down to GR this year unless something ridiculous happens. Abby has earned his spot, and he will not re-sign with a two-way contract. In most GR games I watched this season, Ritola was not playing center. Is he a better center than wing? How about a friendly wager? Abby is my favorite prospect being called up this year, and you say Ritola is better than him. This year, whoever (Ritola or Abby) scores more points for the Red Wings, than one of us buys the other a player t-shirt with their player's name. For example, if Ritola outscores Abby, I buy you a Ritola shirt.

I think you are looking at my Howard argument the wrong way. I was saying that his performance in the AHL suggested he could be a decent NHL goalie. It is basically irrelevant to the Ritola argument anyways. I do hope that Howard can continue his excellent play from last year. The Howard example does not convince me that Ritola will develop. I would bet there are more players who score 40 points in the AHL that never score 50 in the NHL, than there are players who do. Can it happen? Yes. Is the probability of it >.5? Not likely. Mursak interests me because of his improvement. Ritola's stagnation worries me in that he may have hit a wall- although I hope this is just in GR. While all three are the future, there aren't enough roster slots for them all the be playing on the Wings next year without trades or having no current players re-signed. This is further complicated by the fact that next year there are zero top-9 players scheduled to leave the team. Next year the Wings will have: ZDH Franzen-Flip-Bert Huds-Abby-Cleary Someone-Helm- Someone You can switch the lines a bit to make room in the top-9, but there isn't room for all of Tatar, Mursak, and Ritola. The above is assuming the Wings don't re-sign anyone. Would you rather see a third line of Cleary-Ritols-Huds or a line of Cleary-Abby-Huds? I'm not sure what you disagree with me about. I agree that Ritola has the tools to be a good player, but I don't think it is likely (p<.5) that he will become a 'Flip type' player. He just hasn't shown that he can put it all together at the AHL level, let alone the NHL level.

I wasn't using Howard's numbers to say that his AHL stats projected him to have the season he did last year- they didn't. However, his AHL save percentages were close to that of the top-20 AHL goalies this year ,so he certainly wasn't a bad AHL goaltender. http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_goalies&season_id=30 If you expand Flips season this year to 82 games, he would have hit 50+ points. I think the 'Flip mold' as you described it is at least a 40+ point player. Ritola hit 42 points his past two seasons in the AHL- Flip had 70 in his AHL year. I'm not saying Ritola won't score 40+ points in the NHL, but I believe the odds are against him. We agree that he has the tools, but I think he is less likely to put them together in the NHL than you do. I wouldn't be surprised to see him putting up solid points playing in the SEL in three years. In most threads I've suggested trading Miller (not Ritola), because I want to see if he can develop. However, I do believe that Mursak and Tatar can develop into better players, so this may (should) be Ritola's only year with the Wings unless he does develop.

Howard had decent numbers while in the AHL, so it wasn't completely unexpected that he would be a decent NHL goalie. Your use of these examples only proves what everyone knows- Ritola could be a good NHL player. However, most of the 50+ point scorers in the NHL put up better AHL numbers. There are always counterexamples, but the trend is against Ritola here.

Ritola has potential, but he eventually has to put up numbers to earn his spot on the team. He hasn't shown that he can score at the level of Flip, and I'm not sure if he will have the chance to on this Wings team. This year Abby, Huds, and Cleary will likely be on the third line. Unless Ritola impresses, Mursak and Tatar may pass him on the depth chart when they move up in the next couple years. Ritola has the tools to be a productive player, but I'm not convinced he will become a 50+ point scorer in the NHL.

It's not a bad city at all from my limited experience. The field I'm doing my graduate studies in (applied/ag. econ) has very few locations within major cities, and I spent my undergrad in the country (Clemson)- so I'm ready for the change.

I don't understand this argument. Maltby not becoming an offensive player doesn't prove that all 50 CHL goal scorers will not be strong offensive players in the NHL. He would be a top-5 prospect in the Wings system easily. Beach is a more offensive (maybe a little less tough) Lucic.

Great deal for CBJ. I wish the Wings would have tried to make a trade for him, but I'm not sure if CBJ would have moved him. I'm happy he's staying in Columbus since I'll be living up there for the next few years.

Carcillo did play many games on Philly's first and second lines last year. While he probably wouldn't make the Wing's third line, he is a decent player.

Fights happen at camps all the time. From reading other boards, Olimb may have speared Beach earlier in the game. Also, the injury was apparentely sustained when Olimb hit the ice. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaches/management told Beach to play Olimb physical. At 24, Olimb was one of the older players at the camp, and he was also one of the smaller players (5'10, 176lbs). Therefore, they may have wanted to test his physical strength by targeting him a bit.

You forgot Holmstrom. Also, Draper is signed and would likely play above Meech (who is not yet signed).

I hope it's not two years. We have too many centers as it is, and there are players in the AHL who need to move up next season (Mursak, Tatar, I. Flip maybe).

It doesn't necessarily mean that Ritola is the odd man out. However, one of he and Miller will likely have to go if there is another signing. I think the plan is to trade one of them for picks if we need to free up roster space.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that these players need to be dressed during the playoffs. They are utilized best during the regular season where they 'keep the flies off' the rest of the team. I'm also not trying to prove the presence of an enforcer helped these teams win the Stanley Cup, just that their presence during the regular season did not hinder their respective teams from achieving. We can go back and forth about if an enforcer is needed. In the end, no player playing ~6 min a night making less than 1m will be able to make or break a team's season. For that reason, I prefer to have an enforcer fill this role as I believe he brings more than a Maltby or Miller (assuming other PK'ers are available) type player.

Unless Boston takes a quick turn downward, I don't think his chances of winning the cup with the Wings will be that much greater than with the B's. I'd much rather sign someone younger who can play with Smith (or whoever develops) over many years.

What do you all think of Eric Boulton? He seems to be an alright player, and he's always willing to drop them. Certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but the pool of UFA's is decreasing pretty quickly.

We likely won't need to sign any additional forwards (without a trade) next year. Mursak, Tatar, and possibly I. Flip may be ready to make the jump to the Wings full-time.