WorkingOvertime

I don't see anywhere in the past few pages of the thread where the national teams are talked about. While this is apparently what you meant to focus on, it is unclear in your posts until this point that you are referring to the national teams. Also, personal attacks won't get you too far in this debate. It is useless to compare Olympic results before 1995- the year the agreement between the NHL and IIHF allowed NHL players to participate. Also, most international tournaments are played on European sized ice, which gives an advantage to the European countries. In addition, the European players are given time off from their professional teams to participate in international tournaments. This should lead to increased performance from more play as a team. You used the present tense in your claim that Finnish players play a more Canadian style than the US players. Therefore, we can only compare the most recent national tournaments and NHL play to debate this topic intellectually. in the most recent tournaments where NHL players and draftees were allowed to compete, the US teams performed very well. While Finland has outperformed expectations in the past, they are considered a top-6 international team by many fans (see HFBoards). The Finnish team has many great/star players. Therefore, their success isn't solely heart and work-ethic- they are a skilled team.

Did you watch the Olympics or World Juniors this past year? Both US teams out-worked and out-performed higher skilled teams to exceed expectations. Also, when comparing NHL players, there are a lot more US players than Finnish players. Therefore, for every five (roughly) US players that are 'lazy with no heart' only one would Finnish player would have to be 'lazy with no heart' for the percentages to be equal.

I agree, as long as the money isn't too ridiculous. Maybe tell him that the Wings plan to keep him around as long as he is healthy and producing. With how he plays, there is a significant risk for plaguing injuries.

Wow. Care to show some evidence of that fact? Growing up in the US, I played against teams from all over the US and Canada at the AA and AAA levels. The style of play was not much different, and I don't see how a large divergence could occur between midgets (15-18 year olds) and the higher levels. As far as heart and work-ethic are considered, I would be weary of making over-arching judgments on any country. Back on topic- I am glad to see Huds back. Unfortunately, he might (should) be on the third line to give us another scoring line. He'll also get PP time, so hopefully be can still get 15+ min a night.

Can you please explain this more in-depth?

Miller spent a significant amount of time on the Wings' second and third lines this year. Also, next year Abby will be taking a permanent spot on the PK, so Miller's PK abilities will be replaced (who knows how well). I don't think it is realistic to assume that Miller and Eaves will be back next year, and (price constant) Eaves would be a better choice IMO. Afinogenov will not sign for 1.1M or less, no matter what. His contract was signed based on this decreasing production for the Sabers (.5 ppg), but he seems to have picked his play up again. Even for 2M, Maxim is a bargain. Asham signed his Philly contract after a down year with the Devils. He is a rare player than can score 20+ points in a season and get in 10+ fights. Therefore, we will command more than 700k. Although I would like them both, they will need much more money than you have budgeted here.

What is the optimal time-line for him joining the Wings?

I don't know much about luxury tax systems, so forgive my ignorance. Wouldn't this effectively be the same as increasing the cap by x amount and also increasing the minimum salary by some y amount, while increasing revenue sharing amongst the teams? We would essentially by increasing the cap to x, and the wealthy teams would be able ot reach this level. However, the less-wealthy teams-which currently receive revenue via revenue sharing- would receive more money. Therefore, the minimum and maximum would essentially by raised, with the low-end being supported by the top end growth. On the other hand, this would increase the amount of NHL money going towards struggling teams, but I'm not sure if it improves their overall financial situation. The NHL is in a bit of a bind when it comes to the cap. It needs to be kept low enough for low revenue teams to compete, but high enough to attract players and allow good teams. Hopefully, the league can stabilize themselves in some iffy markets and the cap can start to see large increases.

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To me, it is a matter of how much enforcing the player can do. I'd estimate that Abby and Nystrom would have a similar amount of fights, but neither of them are true enforcers or 'policemen'. While Boogard didn't fight much, his presence was likely deterring force (I didn't watch many Wild games this year). I'd like a proactive enforcer (Orr is the best example and worth his paycheck IMO), but I'll take whatever Holland gets. A guy like Nystrom could be a good forth liner here; however, I'd like to see someone else be the 'toughest' Wing.

Could this roster make the cap? I'd love to see it (with Ritola and/or Maltby in Miller's spot), but I'm not sure it works. Do you really have Miller and Draper playing above Abby and Eaves? While you could argue that Abby or Helm can center the third, I'm not sure what justification there is for icing Drapes and Miller above Abby and Eaves when the team is healthy. With that said. I'd love to have Thornton on the team. He's a pretty good player and can chuck them with the heavies.

I think everybody wanted the old Lilja. The Lilja who fought, hit, blocked shots, etc. After his concussion he is unable (from what I've read) to fight, and this seems to have changed his game a bit, understandably.

The only problem with Nystrom is how little he fights. While I wouldn't mind having him on the team, I don't know how he would react to being the toughest (in term of fighting) player on the team. I'd love to have many players who will put up 5-10 fights a year, but this isn't enough for an enforcer IMO. However, this is the Wings, so I'll happily take anything Holland gets.

While I like Lilja (and don't want to see him on another team), I'm not sure he fits the team on a long term basis (after Smith, E, and Kindle are regulars). I've read that he wants to return to Sweden in a few years, so maybe he can do that sooner than planned. With that said, if he signs for a low salary, I would like to have him as the 6th/7th dman next year. Janik can also fill that spot in my mind.

I think you're forgetting Helm.

The thought of an Eaves, Helm, Prust forth line is pretty amazing. With the forth liners we have, it seems that the line will have speed as its greatest asset. If we can build on that with a fighter who can also skate, they can be a great forechecking line (with good D from Helm and Eaves/Miller).

I'd be excited to see someone like Prust on the Wings. He seems like a perfect fit with his speed and he could mentor Callahan (in camp when he comes up over the next couple seasons, etc) since is also smaller. Why do most here have Helm as the third line center and Abby as the forth? While it could go either way, it seems that most here have Helm penciled in. IMO Abby has a higher offensive upside and the hands needed for a scoring third line. Helm's speed and tenacity make him perfect for an energy line role

I could put up points playing with Hossa. Kope is a decent player, but I doubt he be as successful playing with less skilled players.

Ritola and Abby played well together in GR this season, so maybe that chemistry can translate to the Wings. I agree that anyone would be an upgrade to Williams. I'd like to see May, but he and Draper on the same line worries me and I don't think the third line would be changed to accommodate him (Draper up, Eaves or Miller down).

I agree. Running the goalie isn't that uncommon of a strategy, although this incident was pretty obvious. It's a dangerous play because of the goalie's protection (particularly the helmet), but it isn't that big of a deal IMO. He deserves a game at most from the league (in addition to a pat on the back from his teammates and a punch in the face from the other team), but the OHL has been handing out some pretty hefty suspensions lately so I expect more.

This works pretty well. I used to use Z-Balls (a plastic ball with fluid), but I'm not sure if they're still available.

I'm the same way. Tonight, I am having a Pens and a CBJ fan over to watch the Boston v. Philly game. While I love the Wings, I also love hockey in general.

They showed the penalty on TSN. Thornton skated through the crease and bumped Howard, and Howard gave him a tap. To quote Ferraro on TSN, "That can't be called. He wouldn't have hurt Thornton if he wasn't wearing shin-pads."

I would have like to see Morris let him square up and get his balance. It's not like Abby was unwilling. Real tough getting some extra shots in with the refs in there.

I would like to only see one of Bert and Holmer return, but it will likely be both. Also,the Wings should keep only one of Eaves and Miller. While they've both been great, I don't think we need them both next year with Abby coming up full time. I'd prefer Eaves, but he was making 1.4 million before coming to the Wings and IMO neither should be making that much next year. This would also free up the 13th slot for an enforcer (maybe Maltby as a 14th). The D (with or without Lids) will likely look as you have it unless Lilja chooses to return to Sweden. I see a few different scenarios for the Wings forwards next year. With both Bert and Homer back Franzen- Dats- Holmer Bert- Z- Flip Cleary- Abby- Huds Eaves- Helm- Draper/enforcer With the above lineup, I'd really like to see them try Flip- Dats- Holmer, and Franzen- Z- Bert. I'm not sure if the chemistry will be there, but it is a great spread of talent. With only one of Bert/Holmer Huds- Dats- Franzen Flip- Z - Holmer Cleary- Abby- Ritola/UFA Eaves- Helm- Draper/enforcer I'd really like to see Mursak crack the team next year, but I don't think it will happen. A third line of Cleary- Abby- Mursak could be vary dangerous.