Finnish Wing

Well if you're looking for a 1st line center for your AHL team I think that's better fit than someone like Carcillo for example.

My image of Babcock is that he's one of the best coaches in the World and one of the few coaches in the NHL whose team play modern hockey. Modern hockey involves puck posession and puck control. Of course you can do that with players who have less skill as well, but it's easier to do with skilled players. Usually more tougher players are less skilled if you want them to be cap-friendly.Maybe I'm wrong. Because I've seen changes in the way we play after McLellan left. Sharks play the puck posession style now, and I feel we don't play it the same way we did few years ago. We don't control the game like we used to. Everyone talked about how we lost Hossa etc. but I was pretty concerned at losing McLellan. We'll see how next year goes, but Babcock is still considered one of the best coaches tactically right now. After McLellan left I began to think that McLellan was actually more involved tactically while Babcock was handled more of the mental coaching. And in today's hockey you get nowhere by just shouting to the players. You have to know about the tactical elements as well. Different breakout rhythms etc. Like I said I still think Babcock can make this team play like they did few years ago controlling the game, at least I hope so. But maybe I'm wrong. What has this have to do with our NHL team's cap?

I was just thinking what you meant with that. I mean, Babcock probably affects every moves Holland makes concerning the big club. I just don't think Babcock affected Brad May signing any more than the Hudler signing for example.I just got the image that you were saying Babcock is somehow more pro-enforcer and more after tougher players. I feel Babcock is one of the few coaches in the league who prefers skill over toughness in many situations considering they way he wants his team to play.

Why do you think that exactly? Was getting Hudler for example more Holland's doing then?I think Babcock affects in all player moves regarding the big club. I wouldn't say he's any more pro-enforcer than Holland is. Babcock after all likes his team to control the puck and have the possession. I think that strongly involves players like Hudler.

I think he earlier said he's looking to sign an enforcer and that comment is more like saying he maybe won't be able to sign one after all. "If it's not there, it's not there." "If we can't fit it in, we would go without it." I wouldn't also be so sure about that heavyweight thing. He's just referring to two former team members who could fight.

Jussi and Olli are not related. Jussi has a younger brother playing in Finland though. Kiprusoff has an older brother playing in French league. Selanne also has an identical twin, which I've never seen - he doesn't play hockey. Timonen's younger brother plays in Finland as well. There are probably some others I can't think of right now.

I'm sorry, what's the subject again? I don't think you even know what you're talking about. Well that's a surprise! All you basically do here is agree with what other people say without ever saying anything useful yourself.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Hudler-Filppula-Franzen Cleary-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi Draper-Helm-Eaves + Miller, Ritola Lidstrom-Kronwall Stuart-Rafalski Kindl-Ericsson + Lilja Howard Osgood I really want to see Hank and Pav playing together. I also want to pair Kronwall with Lidstrom to balance out the first pairings. Rafalski is the most offense-minded of our top4 and Stuart is the most defense-minded. Kronwall and Lidstrom are more balanced.

I'd definitely go for him. He's got a rocket of a shot and can play physical as well. Fan favourite in Boston, I think. Is he really going to be available?

Nope. That's not what potential is either. Seems like you don't get it. He was one of the best players in FEL last year. Having potential means that he can still improve. Saying he has potential could mean being one of the best players of AHL. It could mean playing in the NHL in the future. You said he don't have potential so obviously you know something I (and many others) don't. I don't know "how many" players. What I do know it's not rare and it's possible. There have been more and more players in recent years that have come to the NHL in later years. There are many players in KHL for example who could still make the jump to NHL at late 20's. We're not talking about Franzen-like late bloomer here, but a late bloomer still. Just because he hasn't been trained with NHL coaches like Franzen or someone else, doesn't mean he couldn't be a decent NHLer in the future.I'll end this conversation here. At least in this thread.

I don't think they've ever played together, except maybe in juniors.

Nope, it wasn't. The first argument stands still. You said he doesn't have any potential because he's "already" 28. You still haven't proved why and I doubt you ever can't.Where did I say I expect him to even be an NHLer in the future? Where did I say that, please tell me? Or are you - yet again - trying to twist my words? I wouldn't say 3 years is "shortly after", even if an average hockey career is 35 or something like that. We're closer to the actual point. You see, I didn't say anything regarding this guys potential. It's all made up by you. Ahh, so because this is a Red Wings board that means we don't discuss about AHL and potential only means if you get to play in the NHL, right? I'm not gonna say he couldn't play in the NHL in the future, but I'm not gonna say he will either. And just because he doesn't have potential with the Red Wings doesn't mean he couldn't have a future in some other team. It's still called potential you know. You still haven't realized that this whole conversation started when you stated (yet again) something you had no idea of and couldn't prove. I only questioned it and I still havent got a solid answer. WHY CAN'T PLAYERS OVER THE AGE OF 28 STILL HAVE POTENTIAL AND IMPROVE THEIR GAME?

Hockey isn't all about points but the market pays more for points than grinding.I didn't say he has lots of potential did I? Post after post you're trying to twist my words because you've run out of arguments. Ahh, the good ol' Finnish boner -argument. Crymson didn't have anything to back up what he said either. You're really classy btw. Trying to use manpower and country bias as methods to argue. I wasn't going to ask you this, but I have to now: HOW OLD ARE YOU? Seriously, this is like arguing with a kid. I don't care if you're over 30 (which I doubt) but this is still like having a conversation with a 14 year old.

OK. I'm not gonna say anything about that, because that isn't what we were arguing about in the first place.You basically said that players 28 or older don't have potential. I'm saying they do. About that body declining. I wouldn't say it's shortly after 30 when player's body starts to decline. I'd say it's closer to 35 than 30. In fact I don't know any player who at age of 33 for example have started to decline. Injuries are injuries of course. Yeah, "soft Finns" like Teemu Selanne are definitely great examples of body declining. I'd say the only two major reasons for North American players being in better physical shape are a) the number of people living in NA (quantity provides quality) and b) the use of steroids, stimulants and such to get to the top (not saying they're not used outside NA, but they're way more common there). I'm pretty happy being a Finn. Only 5 million people living here makes you feel you're actually part something.

Err... what? You're hilarious. Maybe you should try again.Wow, I need to make some kinda list so I can safely say that players can still have potential at their late 20's? He's 28 btw, not 30. edit: And I was taking a shower by the way. You almost declared yourself a winner in this argument because I didn't post right a way? You should learn how these things work on the forums. edit2: I still don't know what your argument is. Actually I don't even know what you're even trying to prove right now. If it's about the potential thing, you haven't given me anything about that.

If he even gets to the NHL that already means he has potential. He played in the FEL last season, remember. Maybe we should go over again, what having potential even means, because it doesn't seem totally clear. In some other thread though.OT: I'm all for getting Konopka if he comes for under 1M and is able to play 10mins a night with some PK as well.

I just named it right there, provided you can read. I don't think many people agree that it was because his linemates why Leino played well. But this is going so off-topic now dude...

Not many people agree with you on this.

Now, where did I say anything like that?I think Leino is doing okay at the moment.

With what exactly? Can you even name one thing?

Whoever said anything about a regular spot in the NHL? We were talking about having potential.Oh, so it's the Finnish argument again. Always use that when run out of arguments? You still haven't provided basically anything valid to back up that he has no potential. Why would I have a boner for him? Are you really so pathetic that you can't come up with anything better? "You have a boner for him cuz' his Finnish so everything you say is wrong!" I could as well say you have a boner for Konopka. I'm just giving you some counter-arguments. Is it annyoing someone questions what you say and you can just present your opinions as facts without any prove? I'm sorry, that's just the way it works. You were saying a guy you haven't even seen playing has no potential and I asked you to somehow TRY to prove it. Well, you kinda failed on that one. Must be real hard when everyone's not agreeing with you.

No, every player doesn't have potential. Lidstrom, Holmstrom and Draper for example. Those players don't have potential. Great way to turn the whole thing upside down. So you can't max out your potential because you haven't been trained in a real league? Where do you come up with this? It could as well be that playing in the NA is the final step he needs to take to max out his potential. I just don't know where do you come up with this thing that players who come to the NA at later age couldn't max out their potential. And you're speaking like he's 30. Hell, I say he's 26 then. That's still many years for improvement.

Franzen still had plenty of potential. Much like Datsyuk. We're not talking about Filppula being no where near the same kinda player as these two but potential is still potential - on a smaller scale as well. What is my argument according to you exactly? The one who started this conversation as well was you saying that "he can't have any potential because he's already 28". I only said he can still have potential. You can check my posts. I haven't said he has potential. It's that simple. I'm only questioning your arguments, because you haven't even seen this guy play.About that Canadian example. Depends what that "somewhere" means. If he was from FEL it would be quite possible that I had seen him play so enough that I could say he has potential.

How does that have ANYTHING to with this thread nor that post? And where did I say even remotely close to anything like that ever? I'm confused.I was totally okay, with him being traded. Would've wanted him as the 13th forward, but the cap didn't allow that. I never made any stupid predictions before the season either. Seems like you've confused me with somebody else.

I don't really have an opinion for that. I think the best enforcer is the best player among enforcers, not the best fighter among enforcers. I can maybe do a little "research" to find out that later, maybe. But I don't have anything right now.