Finnish Wing

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

Montreal already beat Caps and Pens. If Philly beats Montreal it means they're better than Montreal. Why couldn't they beat Hawks or Sharks then? Anything can happen.

(yeah, I know it was a bit different case)

As I said, I don't expect that he continues playing like that through the next regular season etc. But I can say that this Ville Leino is closer to the real one than what we saw here in Detroit this season.

Of course he wasn't anything special. The guy had totally lost his confidence and had a poor regular season under him. You've got to see the potential there as a coach if you're willing to let him play over some other guys. Laviolette actually probably wasn't even gonna play him, but the injuries forced him to do it. Leino took his chance and now Laviolette can just be thankful for the injuries, becuase he didn't see the potential.I'm by no way saying that Leino will continue his ppg game through the next regular season and on, but I think that Carey-comparison is a poor one.

He was scratched because Laviolette said he ain't gonna chance a winning lineup. He said already later, that Leino wasn't scratch because he wasn't "good enough". He was also injured for few games when they playoffs started.Then came the other injuries and he took his chance. You can say he's on a hot streak, but he's still leading the scoring among rookies in the playoffs. I find it kinda hard to believe that he wouldn't be an NHL in the future.

I couldn't care less about Timonen.How many Swedes does the Red Wings have? That's right. Don't act like you're some "real" fan. Real fans go to games and are usually fans of the club since they were born. I can easily admit that Red Wings is only the 3rd team I cheer for (after Tampereen Ilves and Team Finland). Still, I didn't start cheering for this team because of the Finns. I've been a fan since -99. It would be disrespecting towards the real fans "born and raised" in Detroit if I stated that I'm a real fan.

Holland is the one who decided to give it to him plus get Williams. Insted, maybe he should've gone after Hudler etc.Is it Cambell's fault that he's overpaid? Or the GM's?

That article actually has no quote of Babcock saying anything like that. The reporter said Babcock said it, but no quote. Then again the reporter also says: "His confidence is down, so he's not scoring and not winning individual battles." Quote of Peter Laviolette from that article: “I think he’s gained more confidence in himself, with his teammates, with his line and certainly with me,” Laviolette said. “He’s been excellent for us in the playoffs — a very skilled player.”Flyers score and Leino is doing the dirty work in front of the net. Gets an assist for the reward.

I'd like to see the article if there even is one.

Hmm... wonder why it's many time the same thing with guys like Leino who are borderline top6 players. Everytime they're not doing well they seem lazy. Like I said, I bet a guy like Briere wouldn't look great out there if he wasn't producing offensively. And again I ask: are almost every skilled offensive guys playing top6 outside NHL even lazyer than Leino, because they didn't even try to get to the NHL? If you don't see some guy work every day you can't really say he's lazy. It's different working hard and "working hard" in the corners, backchecking etc. I see guys like Teemu Selanne who rarely do anything without the puck. They provide offense, but are useless if they don't do it. Are they lazy? What do you think being lazy even means then? Lazy compared to what? At least compared to average fan like you, I don't think you can call any professional athlete lazy.

Seems like you haven't really played any sport. If you don't believe in yourself, working hard doesn't matter s***. To say that hustling has bigger effect on one's game than believing oneself is just stupid.

Confidence has much more effect when scoring goals for example than working hard and hustling. Every great goal scorer say the biggest thing is confidence. Again, Jussi Jokinen said that when he had no confidence in Tampa Bay the goalie looked bigger and the goal smaller. When he got his confidence back with a fresh start in Carolina the goalie looked smaller and the goal bigger.

As I said before, it was Holland's mistake to not get a real top6 forward instead of unsure guys like Leino and Williams. They were both supposed to be offensive players and Holland did know very well that they won't be playing on the PK and that their strenghts are not on the own end. Leino was benched because he wasn't brining that offense what Holland expected (last year he had 9 points and 13 games). You can't put a guy like him on the 4th line checking role if he doesn't produce. The only way is to bench him. There are numerous guys in the NHL just like him who are pretty much useless if they don't produce. To say he "didn't" back check at all is stupid, but I'm not sure if Danny Briere's strenght is back checking either. There are even more guys like Leino who are on the verge of being NHLers, but are offensive players so they can't play on the defensive roles. They play in the KHL or AHL because their offensive production isn't good enough to be in the top6 in NHL. Some guys like Stefan Ruzizcka, Petri Kontiola or Marek Zagrapan. They all have almost NHL potential but does it mean they're lazy because they play in the KHL or some other league? Those guys wouldn't have look too much different in Leino's situation. I agree that Leino is/was one-dimensional, but I don't agree he was lazy. Or if he was, then I guess most of the top6 forwards playing outside NHL are lazy by that logic.

Okay, so he was confident all the time, he just SUDDENLY didn't wanna work anymore after he got that HUGE 800k per year deal. What a fukin joke.

D) He had lost his confidence like Jokinen had in Tampa Bay and nothing went right. Flyers was a chance of fresh start for him. Lack of effort? You mean he didn't want to even try? Hmm... weird that he decided to come all the way through AHL then and not go to KHL to get some money and top6 ice time if he wasn't even gonna try. As I said: when you have lost your confidence even all the little things are going wrong on the ice. It may look like it's being lazy or not trying, but when you're scoring most of the little things go right as well. There are numerous players like Leino in the NHL who are not very useful and not playing well if they don't produce offensively (like his linemate Danny Briere for example). We have the luxury of having guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk who are great defensively even when they don't produce offense. You can't expect anything like that from a 800k guy though.

Why was he out of the lineup? Because he's supposed to be offensive player and he wasn't producing. It's that simple. He got his confidence back by changing the team like I kinda predicted and know he's doing pretty well.Point totals of last season or this season? Because this season isn't over yet - at least not for him. Last season proved that he can play at this level. This season one thing led to another and he lost his confidence. You can check who's leading the scoring among rookies in this year's playoffs if you make that "working hard = more points" -argument. I agree that he didn't do all the little things right on the ice here, but to say he was lazy (basically meaning that he didn't even wan't to get it done here) is bulls***. Like I said: how many guys take the AHL-road at the age of 25 when they have a change to earn multiple times more cash instantly in the KHL?

No evidence to back up that argument.Nothing to back up that either. Same thing. At least he's still playing somewhere. So basically some opinions, with nothing to back them up. You can have your opinions though. Just don't make them look like facts. The fact is that most of the people hate that he's doing well right now and hope that he wouldn't succeed.

Flyers.

I think it's much more likely that he'll score more than 30 points than less 30 points.I've watched him since 2002 regardless of the league. I've watched him in FNL, AHL and NHL. He certainly has all the tools as he has proven last year here and this year in the playoffs. Your prediction is based only on one bad year here. You don't put up 9 points in 9 games in the playoffs as a rookie by accident. I want to make babies with him? Maybe not. No need to go personal. You can say I'm biased, but I can say that you're biased against him. After all, I understand if you don't wish him good as he didn't play very well here and that's probably also why we sucked in the playoffs this year. He was 25 and had already played a full year in the AHL. After his MVP season in the FNL he could've as well gone to the KHL and get much more money there, but he decided to try and get to the NHL. There are numerous guys who would've chosen the easier path.I don't think you can blame his attitude. I doubt the other guys in GR last year would've been able to dominate FNL the way he did. The NHL is just one league in the world of hockey. Just because someone says that he doesn't have to play here or goes to play in the KHL like Huds, doesn't mean he's disrespecting Red Wings or lacking work ethic etc.

Haha. You probably haven't even watched him play this playoffs. You're just bitter because it didn't work here and you're trying to make up something to make him look bad.He's been as good as needed defensively. He's not a PK guy or a 4th liner. He's been skating much faster and back checking as well. Also, he's a winger. If you know anything about hockey, you'd know that wingers defend against the opposite d-men in the defensive zone. Sure, they can block shots, but I don't think Datsyuk or Zetterberg do that either. They're not supposed to "scrum" in front of their own net. And what does it matter anyway when you are scoring ppg? You hope that don't you? Because you made a prediction that he will never be NHL-level player or something like that (never score more than 30 points etc.?).I've watched him since 2002 and I can say that now he's back to his normal self. In Detroit he was worse than he really is. Go Ville, get that Cup!

Haters gonna hate.

I just talk about the players I know about. I've watched him play since 2002 - I think I know what I'm talking about. You can call me biased, but it's a fact that it was a matter of confidence more than working hard or wanting it.I defend someone if I see a comment that is wrong IMO. You can defend Howard, I can defend Leino. But I certainly don't defend all Finnish players because they're Finnish. I couldn't care less what Timonen does on the ice for example. Would I like to watch Leino if he wansn't Finnish? Probably not. But so what? I never wasn't one of those guys who said Leino scores 50 points and wins the rookie of the year. The fact that Leino or someone else is Finnish doesn't blind my ability to judge that player.

You think he didn't want to succeed here? I don't know if it's about working hard or not, but the biggest reason was lack of confidence. Change of scenery fixed that. Good for him.

Leino with his second assist and making a nice screen there.