Finnish Wing

I don't see why the instigator penalty is preventing the punishment here. Someone can go and challenge that cheapshotter to a fight. If he doesn't fight everyones knows that he's a chicken, plus he gets suspension for the cheapshotting. If he fights he fights and he gets suspension. I think that's a good method punishing.

Haven't you noticed that the game is much faster than before and players are also much bigger than before. I think it's obvious that there will be more injuries. Removing the instigator -> NHL:s best fighter could hurt who ever he wants as he aren't afraid of fighting. Hell, a team could even sign some real pro-boxer just to do stuff like that and after that he could just win everyone in the fight. If people really think fighting is the solution for the injuries, then I'm very confused. I think that even if there is an instigator penalty everyone who doesn't fight when they've done something stupid (headshot for example) will be known as cowards. I don't think any player will want that kinda reputation so they'll fight. I think getting a coward reputation/having to fight + the suspension is a much better punishment than letting players punch other players in the head without the other player even being ready for fighting.

We have guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk who get a bit more money than Leino did. And yes they deserve it, but that isn't the point. The fact is that Leino could've easily been awarded a bigger contract in some other teams like Thrashers for example. In KHL he would've gotten an even bigger contract. So if you think it's about money you're SO wrong.You're just disappointed that he wasn't good enough and now you're mad at HIM even when it's the Red Wings who made the decision (mistake) of signing him obviously.

I'd like to add that I'm supporting getting a GOOD enforcer for us this off season. Someone who could stick around longer (not like May) with us. Fighting is definitely a good way to solve problems between two men. Much better than swining someone to the head with the stick. Even though I'm supporting enforcers and hockey fights like they are now, I'm definitely against removing the instigator. But that has been discussed enough in the "head shot thread" or something like that.

Selanne was an example of a player who isn't good enough defensively to anywhere outside top6 or in an offensive role in 3rd line, meaning PP time as well. Leino isn't a 4th line player. He admits that he isn't good enough in checking and stuff like that compared to a guy like Helm for example. What's the problem there? He says what kinda player he is. Is it wrong to know your own strengths and weaknesses? I think it's just good that the coaching staff knows what kinda players they have in the team. I'd basically have too options, press box or playing him in a top6/3rd line offensive role. Red Wings did the former and he was interviewed about it. He explained about his problems and suddenly it means that he is whining?If my grandpa got a contract with the Red Wings and was sent to the press box because he couldn't skate would it be whining that he explained his own strenghts and weaknesses in a interview regarding it?

The only reason he had that opportunity was because there were injuries. Red Wings had never planned at start of the season to have Leino in top6. Maybe they should have taken a guy like Hulder who is definitely a top6 guy, rather than Leino + Williams who are 3rd liners on an offensive roles. Red Wings made a mistake to trust in width rather than top skill.As I said, it's the organization that gives those players their playing time and pays their salary. If some player sucks or is overpaid, he isn't responsible to the fans for it. It's the organization, who made a mistake signing player X on some specific role and paying the money, if it doesn't work. If you got offered a 800k a year to play for the Red Wings, would you not do it?

Troll keeps trolling. Some of those comments are so insulting personally that I'm not even gonna comment on that.

"When you're whining..." gimme a break.Talk about one media comment getting a little too much weight here on LGW. Leino is a 800k guy. He's better in providing offense than shutting down opposite guys. Don't you think it's good for player to know their strength and weaknesses? He just wasn't good enough to be on top6 here. But that kinda player he is. You don't put Teemu Selanne on a checking line to do checking, because that's not what kinda player he is. It was obviously Detroit's mistake if the believed that Leino can be in top6 and provide enough offense which he couldn't. After that trying to move him to the 4th line is just admitting that mistake. There are bunch of players outside NHL who are more skilled than many NHL 3rd liners, but not skilled enough to be in a top6 role and not good enough defensively to be on 3rd or 4th line. It isn't about disrespecting the organization or the fans if you know what kinda player you are, but are frustrated to live up to the expectations. Teemu Selanne suddenly stops providing offense and the coach puts him to 4th line. Is it being lazy and disrespecting the organization if he says that he isn't 4th line type player? As I said, Red Wings gambled on Leino, believing he could provide enough offense. Don't see anything about "insulting Hockeytown" there.

How do you know it was anything about being lazy? I think there's a big difference of being a lazy or having zero self-confidence. Do you think he didn't want to play for this team? Do you think he didn't want to succeed? It just didn't work. But you have no proof that it was anything about being lazy. If he plays with his own strenghts, knows that he maybe doesn't win corner battles, but can make plays.And the organization didn't hand him no "silver platter". He was the Finnish league MVP and there's was bunch of choices he could've gone to. Red Wings wanted him. It was nothing about "giving a chance". He played so good in the AHL the he deserved to start in the NHL. Things happened and he got traded. Life goes on. Better for Red Wings, better for him. I just bet that OKT + the guy we gonna get from that 4th round pick will play less games in this league than Leino.

He hasn't played with Richards at all and he hasn't even been on the PP at all basically.The games he played with Gagne and Briere, he was the best player of them three.

I also was definitely support keeping Hudler, but you aren't so stupid that you'd think it was a choice between him and Leino.I myself never ever said he would do something like top 40 points this season. That was just another example of the wrong kind of optimism by the Wings fan, just like this Leino hating now. After Hudler was gone and Leino was here, everyone said Hudler sucks etc. and said that Leino will win the Calder. Now that Leino is gone and OKT is here, everyone says that Leino sucks. Just to make the things look better for us. Leino isn't half the player Hudler is, but to say something like he won't have a chance to be a NHL-level player in the future is just stupid. The guy's cap hit was 800k for god's sake.

I just wanted to point that out because it seems that people aren't satisfied with him getting traded and they still need to bash him. Now I ask, why? People want him to do badly, so that the trade would look better, which I think is stupid. If people really were satisfied with the trade then obviously they wouldn't have bitterness or something like that to cause them to post comments like above here.I wish well for every former Red Wings player if he isn't a child abuser or a murderer etc. This is only a sport, so I really don't know why people HATE some players like they do.

Vesa Viitakoski.

Yeah, but I generally don't hate any player. It just seems kinda sick when people would want player X to get hit by a bus or something like that. I'm no hippie or anything like that, but why do people even need to bash players? I understand when you say that "player X is overpaid" or "didn't play well tonight" etc. I have my favourite players, whom I wish to do well. I support them. But there aren't a player whom I wished bad things to happen.

I'm not saying Rask is a better candidate for the Calder than Howard, but I definitely think that he's the better goalie. People don't seem to get how insane those stats are. If he keeps those stats until the end of the season he will be on the all time top10 in save%. The reason why he hasn't been able to play so many games that the other goalie there is last year's Vezina winner whose cap hit is 5m. I think it's kinda easier to be the number one when the other goalie's name is Osgood and not Thomas.So, Howard will probably be in the top3 for Calder voting and Rask won't. Still I think Rask has the chance to be the best goalie in the world in 5 years, and he already is better than Howard.

Yeah, I know that they're awarding it to the best all-around d-man.1. Keith 2. Green 3. Pronger or Lidstrom That was my list and it still is. I'm just thinking that maybe they should change the meaning of that award. Maybe it's just because I'm Finnish and here we award the best forward, the best d-man etc. I mean swap Keith with Green for example. Would Washington be were they are now?

The point is that if you're good enough offensively you can win games with less defense. Never you can win games with only good defense. Yes, so they're both important.But. What does it matter how you do it if you're obviously helping your team with your play? I think +/- 35 and +70 points is pretty good. Obviously it shows as they've been so good team.

Is the Norris trophy based only on regular season?

But the fact is the only be defending you can't win. But you can win only by attacking. That's in theory.If were talking about Green. Obviously he's +/- 35. If he does some mistakes in the own end, so what if his play still helps the team like that?

Or could it be... You need to score goals to win games?I think it should be the result that matters, not the way you do it. Green has most points and best +/- and his team just won the Presidents' Trophy. Are we counting style points here?

What happened in that case btw? Did Detroit pay him?I tried to google, but didn't find anything. I wasn't around here back then. Reading through some stories saying that Red Wings hired private investigators etc. Kinda evil...

Okay, well explain it then? You think you can win games just by defending?

Come to think of it, why there even is an award like Selke?Scoring more goals than the other team, I think that's the point of this game. What does it mean anyway's if Green loses the puck in the own end or something like that if he helps the team a lot in the other end? Good offense is the best defense.

I'm just wondering why people still keep talking about this if they think we got the better end of that deal and everything went well. Everything's great so let's move on right?Or is there some bitterness in the air?

So you mean Rask should win it?