Finnish Wing

It's the Rangers. They have bad luck drafting players anyway.

Blackhawks won the deal, but it could turn out to be different in the long run. Barker has still much potential. Maybe the change of scene will do him some good.

I lol'd hard. Have you even watch the games? He's better on the boards than Zetterberg for god's sake.

You give it up. Babcock knows.

Yea, but Zetterberg can also play on the wing. That's the point. Lines for ya: Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Bertuzzi-Filppula-Franzen Miller-Williams-Cleary Draper-Helm-Eaves + Maltby I dunno why are you making this so hard everyone. No trades, no nothing. This works.

Yes, we should definitely trade him.

I knew he was up to something...

Here in Finland I think it's the opposite. Nobody wants to be a goalie (at least when playing outside games with friends). Yet, we have some of the better goalies. Kinda weird. xD

The game was on February 5th, so dunno if this has already been posted.

Yep, but we're not arguing about's Howard's performances here. At least I'm not. Maybe people think I am, because they are a bit aggressive. Only thing I'm saying that being in a top x for goalie isn't the same than being in top x for forwards. I'm not taking anything away from Howard or saying that Duchene should win the Calder before him.

No need to change the perspective for your advantage. Take every player in the NHL whose last name isn't Howard and see if Jimmy Howard makes the list. Top million goalies is different than top million forwards. Plus we are talking about the NHL Calder trophy here. What happens outside NHL right now doesn't matter. There are about 6 times more forwards playing hockey in a team than there are goalies. That fact doesn't change. Howard is #14 in wins and Duchene is #70 in points. Do some people really think it isn't easier to be in the top10 as a goalie than as a forward? An example: Niklas Backstrom came in to the NHL as a 28-year old goalie, who had never played a single game in NA, but became a top10 goalie on his first season. How many forwards have been able to do something like that?

I dunno how can you determine how much Toskala really is worse than Luongo or May worse than Ovechkin. It just doesn't go like that. You compete with the other guys and if they suck, it usually means that you're doing well. We already went through that. There are also much more forwards in the world competing to get to the NHL than there are goalies so it isn't significally harder or easier. It's about the same. Every European team, every junior team. They all usually have x goalies and 6x forwards. That means getting into that 360 pool as a forward is basically the same as getting into that 60 pool as a goalie. Therefore that top10 for goalies isn't the same than top10 for forwards.

You yourself brought up these: Duchene #70 in scoring among forwards, Howard #14 in wins among goalies. We could as well say that Howard really isn't competing with player X because he sucks. But that's not how it goes. It's doesn't take anything away from Duchene even if there are some bad forwards just like it doesn't take anything away from Howard competing with Toskala. The fact is that 360/70 > 60/14. That top10 thing still isn't working comparing goalies and forwards. I dunno why it's so hard to understand. I'm not bashing Howard, or saying that Duchene is better candidate for the Calder than him.

If the goaltenders are "the cream of the crop", how come guys like Ovechkin and Crosby are the best players? There are some bad forwards, I agree. There are also some bad goalies. There are more forwards, but I'd say that the average skill is about the same on both positions. I wouldn't say goalies are automatically the best just because there is only one goalie per team on the ice. Sure, they have bigger responsibilities, but also bigger possibilities. I as a goalie you compete with 59 other goalies in the league but as a forward you compete with 359 other forwards.

60/10 = 360/60. I think that's a statistical and mathematical fact. I dunno how that "best play in the NHL" is much different with defensemen and forwards. If we're talking about market value and things like that, I'm pretty sure the average cap hit for top10 goalies is about the same than the average cap hit for top60 forwards. Also, I wouldn't say Howard is much more valuable in the trading market than for example Duchene right now.

I guess the earlier poster meant that you pick players who could fit in Wings team cap-wise right now.

Well basically you were saying: if Lehtonen stays healthy and plays well Stars win and if Lehtonen doesn't stay healthy and doesn't play well Thrashers win.

LOL HELMINEN!

It's gambling for both sides, not only about Lehtonen. Vishnevskiy hasn't proven anything yet. He was given opportunities, but he just didn't improve as fast as people were expecting. There has been also rumors about him going to KHL.

I dunno anything about NFL, but what I said was a statistical fact. Top 10 for goalies = Top 30 for defensemen = Top 60 for forwads. AGAIN, not to take anything away from Howard, but that "Top 10 thing" just doesn't work here, comparing him with Duchene for example.

Immonen is boring. Peltonen has great chemistry with Jokinen. Peltonen is a great leader. Peltonen carries our flag in the opening day. Peltonen scored a hat-trick in the WC -95 finals. Peltonen's first name is Ville. Peltonen...

There are much less goalies in the WORLD in every league than forwards. That's why you can't say it's harder to get in the NHL as a goalie, because there are less guys competiting for the spots. And that's also why being in top something is always easier for goalies. This isn't a anti-goalie or anti-Howard post. I'm just saying that it isn't a very good argument to say that Howard's gonna win the Calder because he's the only guy in top10 among guys playing his position.

Still didn't undestand my point. You were saying at first basically that Howard is the only Calder contender to be in top10. Now, that's not really a good argument as he's a goalie. I dunno where are you getting this "outside of NHL" stuff. There are less goalies IN the NHL than forwards. 60 goalies, 360 forwards. That is why being in top10 amongst goalies is easier than being in top10 amongst forwards. Also, I never said comparing Howard's win stat with Duchene's win stat. You yourself brought up Duchene's POINTS stat and that he's #70 in scoring amongst forwards while you also brought up that Howard is #14 in wins amongst goalies. Now the thing is that 360/70 > 60/14. That's why that argument isn't really that good.

I wasn't arguing about that. I was just saying that for goalies is much easier to be in top10 than for forwards. There are 360 forwards, 120 defensemen and 60 goalies in the NHL (basically). That's why Howard being in the top10 doesn't mean THAT much. So if wins is the important stat for goalies (Howard is 14th) that means Duchene for example is basically ahead of him, because 360/70 > 60/14. If GAA and SV% are more important, then Rask is better than Howard. Also Myers is pretty darn good at scoring amongst defensemen although his +/- isn't that good. I'm just saying that I wouldn't declare Howard the winner yet.

Ehh... what? I meant that there are more forwards and more defensemen in the NHL than goalies. It's harder to be in the top 10 for them. I'm just saying that if Thomas gets traded and Rask plays a lot he could well win it. And I wouldn't say Howard is in top 10 even if he has played good this season. Or what does that "right now" mean then? I mean you could as well declare some goalie that best in the world right now after he's played a fantastic period. I think there are at least 10 better goalies than him, he's just playing good right now.