Finnish Wing

Overpaying is never worth it. The fact is he's like Lundqvist to Rangers. You'll never get a player like that with a reasonable price.

It would only lower our GM Reputation.

You'd have to overpay to get Clutterbuck. He's a cult player and a fan favorite, they're not gonna give up on him easily even though he isn't anything THAT special.

Zetterberg is one of the top two-way forwards. But if you look only the defensive aspect he's not that much better than Flip that you could say "it's not anywhere near". Filppula is a good two-way forward yes, but if you look only at the defensive aspect he's more than just "good".It's the same thing when people say Crosby is one of the better all-around players. He's a beast offensively and that makes people overrate his defense compared to players who don't score that much.

Not true.

True. But I see Babcock etc. as major contributors as well. I know Leino is a moody guy, but I think that "likes or doesn't like the city" thing goes together with the way your game goes. If you play like s*** it may not feel so sunny in Philadelphia (or even in Florida) anymore. Players are humans and skilled coaches know which buttons to press. Maybe Babcock had already pressed all the buttons and nothing really worked out.He's a moody guy like I said. Of course that's a bad quality. But you can always think if he'd be himself on and off the ice if reacted or had always reacted differently to those kinda situations. I'm proud there are those kinda players - those "artists" - coming out of this country as well, because the typical Finnish player is a hard-worker who will never become anything than a fast skating bottom line guy and can't do s*** with the puck. There are always haters. Leino didn't play as well as in last year's playoffs and of course that means more haters, doubters etc. That argument really doesn't mean anything one way or the another.

I agree that it may not be a wise decision for him to leave Philly. At least it's risky.I've been thinking about that line. Sometimes it seems Leino is good because of the other two, sometimes it's the other way around. Hartnell to me feels like the one in that line who would be the easiest to replace. Flyers may want to re-sign Leino because of Briere, who they have a lot of money invested in. Leino is not a great player. I wouldn't give him over 3 mill unless I were the Isles (or some other team's like that) GM. He's proven he's a good NHLer, but things can always change. Just ask Jonathan Cheechoo.

Why is Mike Ribeiro there?

Have you even seen Jagr play in the KHL? Did I say Jagr would "dominate the NHL"? Did I say I'd want Jagr on the Wings?The answer to all those questions is probably the same.

So you can score 21 points in 19 playoff games and be a perimeter player these days? Either NHL's level has dropped drastically or Philadelphia's water has some magic powder in it. Or MAYBE just maybe, everything's not so simple as it looks on the ice.Maybe there's a reason Leino played like he did here and how he did in Philly. I find it very hard to believe that the only thing that mattered in the change was Leino himself.

System and role, two entirely different things. System is the general style the team plays - Red Wings plays mostly puck possession that suites players like Leino well. Holmstrom and Zetterberg have different roles even though they play the same system. Leino was on the right role in the AHL. But in the NHL the role Leino usually had been in had already been taken by Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Babcock wanted him to play more Cleary-like game while Leino himself had always been playing the Datsyuk-like game. It would basically be the same if we now decided to sign Lahti, have him play a year in the AHL on a offensive role that he's good in and then try to bring him up as a some kind of grinder.

I think there's a difference between having some freedom or being forced to play in an entirely different role.

Ilari waited the whole season and never got to play a single NHL game, there were always prospects ahead of him. Of course I'd probably call up potential future players as well if I were in Kenny's shoes. But you can't blame him for not waiting.Lahti is nothing special IMO. He will be a good AHLer, but I don't see him having any future at the NHL level.

I can make some kind of comparisong though, when I see Jagr playing against and amongst good NHL players and dominating. I call it "sofa scouting".

Jagr was probably the most dominating player in the Worlds. You don't believe it until you see him play. I didn't think he would be in shape anymore, but as he said himself usually it's the loss of pure speed that makes many older players worse. Players who succeed at an older age usually either have to find a way around it (Lidstrom with his amazing hockey sense) or just somehow maintain it (like Selanne). Jagr's game has never been about speed; he's strong, skilled and relies more on holding on to the puck and making plays that way (I always say Leino is extra lite version of him). Anyways. He's in shape. You have to see it to believe it. That doesn't mean I want him to the Wings, but I still see him as a +50 point player.

Slovak. Slovenian. Czech. Czech. Czech.Tomas Jurco - who was mentioned earlier - is from Slovakia as well. They're not former Soviet union countries. They have less to do with the Soviet union than Finland.

You as a Red Wings fan should know that's absolutely rubbish.

I drafted that Boone Jenner kid in NHL 11. He's my 4th line center in GR, a decent player.

Skilled players play in more offensive roles and top line minutes. Skilled players are more valuable. The same applies to the draft. Rarely it's wise to pick physicality or size etc. over skill in the early rounds. You can dominate with size in the junior leagues if you're more mature physically already. Some players mature earlier, but in the end it's the potential you look for - and skill will become more important in time.

People here really think Flyers are going to trade Carter or Coburn? Can't believe it. Carter was their top goal scorer and they've just locked him up with a long contract. He's not going anywhere. Hartnell is much more likely if you still wanna think there's some issues between the two. Leino and Versteeg will both go before him. Coburn isn't going anywhere either, because they'll just trade Carle. Carle has a slightly bigger cap hit and provides less so I think the choice is pretty obvious. Of course Coburn may have more trading value, but that's not really the point here, because their only goal is to shed some salary. I can't believe there's been more than six pages of discussion about mostly Jeff Carter and the Red Wings here. I think Konnan511 should make a new avatar just to make some facts clear and drop people back down to Earth from that imaginary land.

I never felt I was biased. I just think I've seen Finnish players enough to analyze them. I knew Leino would be a good NHLer, I knew IFlip would never be nothing more than a great AHLer, everyone knows Salo is made of glass. I also know that Granlund will be much better than Pulkkinen even though Pulks scored more points last season. But that you can tell just by looking at the draft numbers though.

I lol'd. You say every player is horrible defensively. Not everyone's a Lidstrom, but doesn't mean they're horrible.Salo is made of glass, but is a great 3rd pair guy.

It's always nice to have that cap space, but for a contender like us it's just wasting potential. I mean 4mill is kinda much, even if you have so re-signing to do the next off-season.

Carter definitely not, don't think Hartnell either.. Leino is not re-signed and Carle is probably trader plus the cap goes up. Don't think they'll have to do much more. Versteeg may be moved also.