Finnish Wing

He's not a 3rd line type player anymore than Leino is. Maybe not good enough for 2nd line in this team, but still not defensively good enough for 3rd and 4th lines in SOME teams. Luckily, this is a puck possession team which actually PLAYS hockey. That's why we can have Leino-Filppula-Williams as our 3rd line as we did in the start of the season.

Everything is subjective. Some players max their potential at older age. Babcock said himself that he's a late bloomer.

Is Williams a 3rd line player then? Obviously Holland and Babcock have build this team to match Babcock's playing style. If you wanna play puck control modern hockey you probably wanna have more lines that actually play with the puck rather than dumping and chasing.

Future and present combined, Leino is the better choice.

Wrong. I never wasn't one of those and if you'd read the previous posts in this topic you'd know that I've been a Red Wings fan since -99, and there were no Finns here back then. (hate to say same things again and again, but some people just don't seem to get it) I think Leino can improve and be a decent player for our 3rd line along with Miller. As said before, May doesn't have anything for the future. It's not always about deserving in this game, it's also about talent and skill, not just hard work. Just like it's in the real life.

Leino was maybe the best player in GR last year.

You honestly think that Leino won't be claimed? You honestly think that we're going to the post-season with no backup defensemen? You honestly think that Abdelkader will stay up?

Nobody said anything about Eaves and he's definitely staying. On the other hand, Abdelkader is definitely going down.

Don't get too excited by first call-ups, I didn't either in Leino's case and I'm not the one bashing now because I didn't have those stupid unrealistic expectations from a 800k player.

It's also funny how Leino is bad even in the games he's good and May and Miller are good even in the games they're bad.

"Has been told"? By who? Source, please.

I've said numerous times that I'm not biased by nationality. I've been a fan of this club since -99 and there were no Finns here back then. If you look at the points Filppula is just as much a 2nd liner as Cleary and Bertuzzi. But you can look my previous lines posts and you'll see that I've got Filppula centering the 3rd line in pretty much every one of them. He's an elite 3rd liner and an average 2nd liner. He would be 2nd liner in some teams, but he's not probably one of NHL's 60 best centers so that means he's not a 2nd liner, if you look it that way.

Trade Lidstrom.

Where did you get that?

It's about confidence. And the other thing: again, Leino's a low risk to take which can actually be something. May won't be anything better than he is now, probably even worse. I'd definitely gamble as we're speaking of such a minor change in the lineup.

He had it earlier. Just because your confidence is at zero, doesn't mean you have no heart. That's a pretty rough thing to say.

May has no potential. Leino has a cheap two year contract. I'd rather lose May than see Leino doing well in some other team in the future. We don't have to play Leino regularly, but there's always the chance. Leino's a low risk medium reward guy, while May is a low risk low reward guy. I consider being a fourth liner is a low reward (even if the guy is an enforcer), while Leino has the potential to be a 2nd/3rd liner. He's having a better rookie season than Filppula did. Don't let the hate blind you, cuz I'm not letting anything blind me either. I never said he'll be a +20 goal guy this season, but I'm not the first one wanting him out of here just because he isn't as good as some expected. I still know that he'll be an NHL player. I have nothing against May, but the thing is he'll probably won't be even claimed by another team.

Abs down, May gone and one of Janik/Meech/Lebda gone. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary Leino/Miller-Filppula-Williams Draper-Helm-Eaves + Miller/Leino, Maltby Lidstrom-Kronwall Stuart-Rafalski Ericsson-Janik/Meech/Lebda + Janik/Meech/Lebda Osgood Howard Not too hard? Leino and Miller are substitutes for top lines while Maltby is for the bottom lines. Leino is good to have along, even if as a healthy scratch as he gets only 700k and has the potential if he manages to get going. One of Janik, Meech or Lebda will be sent down and the remaining two compete for last defensman spot.

Yup. When May has a scoring chance and doesn't score, it means he's playing good to get that chance. When Leino has a scoring chance and doesn't score, it means he sucks because he doesn't score. Leino's had a number of scoring chances and he's also created them by himself, but I guess that's a bad thing then...

I thought our problem is scoring goals. Hopefully Janik is the guy to turn our PP around.

That's because Finns are not soft. Leino is not like the typical Finnish player, he's said it himself. Finns fought in war against Russia while "tough" Americans attack only smaller countries like Iraq. I've seen tons of soft Americans here in this league.

Based on expectations or just performance?

Koivu didn't speak french.

Good post. But it's important thing to notice that these players get paid different amount of money. It's just natural to expect more from guys with huge paybills. So I'd rather make the list based on cap hit vs. performance, not just performance or expectations based on earlier performances vs. performance.

This. But I'd definitely send Abdelkader down and let Leino and Miller compete for that 3rd line spot. And it's also good to have an offensive guy ready even if not in the lineup so May or Maltby will be gone. It's pretty easy to say it's May. That way we have Maltby as a defensive extra forward and Leino/Miller as offensive, although Miller isn't THAT offensive.