Doc Holliday

The Detroit Red Wings.

I'm not asking for blind faith with Osgood. I don't expect to play more games than Howard for the remainder of the season (or even split) but you can't just write off a player based on the performance of his rookie counterpart. He will likely play next season as a backup and it is possible he will do fine in the backup role. Maybe not, but that remains to be seen. And his bitterness has been toward how Babcock has handled both Howard and Osgood. First Howard didn't play in a month, now Osgood. Osgood shouldn't have said it but he wasn't crying for equal starts or for him to stop giving his golden boy Howard (I don't mean that as if it is a fact). And the whole context of what was asked is in question, but like I said, Osgood shouldn't have said it.

Good point. Because we all know that when a goaltender plays bad (despite playing better than the previous year) he must be done. Players can get right up and do well the next season, but not goaltenders. My entire premise is that just because someone isn't haven't a great year doesn't mean they are done. The same was said about last year and lo and behold Chris Osgood had a Conn Smythe run in the playoffs. I am looking forward to next year when Osgood starts as a backup to Howard and threads are started because he isn't backing up properly.

Well, can you blame them? Holland has been completely clueless during the salary cap era.

Very clever.

Alright. Understandable, and I'll retract that. But for a struggling goaltender trying to keep his game up after having a sub-par couple of games doesn't help. Also doesn't help for a rookie to play as many games as he has for his first full year as a goaltender. That has been my biggest gripe. Look at goalies after an offseason, which is undoubtedly worse than some 20 game break. They're not doing much that Ozzie can't do in practices. Or look at goalies who come back from injuries and play adequately enough. What do you think he should do to ramp up his practices? Babs has said he is trying in practice and Osgood is being a good mentor. I mean do you think Osgood just gives him tips then sits around the goal not trying?

Sure it does. Osgood is not playing that great this season and people have been hoping they have retired and are saying they are washed up. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are not playing up to par AT ALL, so you can assume that the same would apply to them. You could always act civil instead of being a self rightous ******-bag. Or is that too much to ask from you? Zack: Once again, all you are doing is voicing an opinion. You are saying Osgood is done on this one season. I am saying that he has had some good games, which you seem to ignore and assert that they weren't so great. Others agree with me as well, but you just wave it off as them being illogical. I mean since Osgood was done last year he shouldn't have played like he did in the playoffs, right? Also I didn't see anything discussed about the rust when I made that point. I'll take a look at it later but when you need a goaltender who is in their upper 30s to get on their game it is going to affect their play. Same with players who are out for an extended period of time. Also your personal attacks are cute considering the great number of members on this forum I have had civil conversations with and have mutual respect with. I can even have a civil discussion with Micah and ESAD despite my drastic disagreements without acting like a total ass.

You are using your super skills as a goaltending professional? And I'm just a silly layman who (according to Pucks) has never played the sport of hockey? If you THINK that Osgood has lost his game then fine, go ahead and say so. But don't act like you and the people who agree with you are the only logical ones in this thread. It is not the case because your opinion is as good as mine on the matter.

Keyword:fight Also I'm not going to waste 5 minutes in the box when I can hit him shift after shift. Especially for something I consider less "threatening". And whether he fights with the guy or not is irrelevant. Whenever someone makes a big hit I get their number and hit them back. That is how the sport of hockey works. One stupid fight is not going to magically make things better. Hitting doesn't unnecessarily endager others, and normally when the injury happens it is not at fault of the hitter. That's how it works. They are not related. Just because they occasionaly have a bad result doesn't mean you can compare them. They are not related other than that one point. And once again the person with the puck is supposed to get hit in hockey. That is the game of hockey. A driver is not supposed to get hit by a drunk driver on the road.

If I see a teammate get hit, I get his number and make the rest of his game hell. Clean or not. f*** the minute long fight. I'll ruin him for the rest of the game. If it is towards the end of the game I'll just run the f***** during that shift. And your drunk driving analogy is horrible because drunk driving is ILLEGAL while hitting is not. Hitting is not always reckless and people don't die from body checks. Police officers arrest people driving under the influence because it more often than not is going to end the life of an INNOCENT human being. The people getting hit are nowhere near innocent in the sport of hockey. There are multiple reasons.

Which means Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, etc. are washed up and we should all hope they retire.

I'm sure Brad Stuart and Niklas Kronwall get really intimidated when guys try to fight them and they say "no thanks". The concept is crap because of the fact hitters don't have to "answer" to some guy who wants to fight them. Micah: I've played hockey enough to know what it is like to be a team player. Just because I don't need someone to fight my battles for me doesn't mean I don't understand. Also your comparison between a legal body check and drunk driving (which kills people every year) is laughable at best.

Such as?

So because it is possible for a player to get injured there should be someone to fight back. Should we completely ignore whether the player gets injured on the play and just have our guys go after on every big hit? Also the honor thing seems to be the only actual reason I could think of as to why someone would want to fight after a legal body check, since a guy challenging isn't going to stop a Stevens or Clutterbuck from laying the hits. He could even turn down the fight. Why does the potential result warrant the retaliation? Why? If it is clean it is clean. If he gets injured then that is a different story. If you aren't the guy getting hit then respect it for what it is and have your players fight their own battles.

And considering that you didn't think Osgood did great in the playoffs (considering the types of praise he received from his coach, teammates, and the media), thought he was washed up one year ago (despite still getting wins), and wish for Osgood to fail for any reason whatsoever really doesn't give much for people to take your word on it.

Your own words were that you want Detroit to be in a playoff spot so that Osgood can play more and show how washed up he is. You want to see Osgood falter. Your own words. You didn't say you want Osgood to retire. You want to watch him fail.

You said you thought that his quote would end the discussion. And what excuses? That's all you are doing is handwaving saying that "Oh you guys are just making excuses!" Well point out what is silly about comparing Howard's performance against Phoenix to Osgood's in Minnesota, or examples such as this. And point out what is so silly about getting a 300+ winning goaltender (Who helped the Wings to two straight finals the last two years) back on track with one measly start every 4-6 games. If the Wings make the playoffs they gotta give him some starts eventually, unless you think Howard should be thrown in there over a guy who has performed well in the playoffs over his career. Like I said, you wish for Osgood to falter to show all of us that you were right all along. Petty.

Why not? They are as legal as body checks, yet for some reason the body check requires a player to DEFEND THEIR HONORZ. Why the distinction? Micah: Howe didn't say anything about legal body checks did he? Injuring players and then destroying them after the fact is not in the same league as this.

See, this is what I cannot stand about discussing the issue with you and zack. You guys HOPE that Osgood falters just because there are fans who disagree with you on his performance. How petty can you be?

Helm is da man.

Why not fight after goals and pokechecks too? I mean if you expect to do something bad to the other team you might as well fight for everything. If it was Richards who wanted to fight I'm fine with that. That is his battle. Ott has his own battles to fight (which he doesn't do that often) and doesn't need to worry about defending the honor of a teammate who just got leveled because of his own actions. It's hockey brah. Play the game like it.

The team in itself doesn't know how to perform in the post-season. Whether you blame the goaltending, veteran presence, coaching, or what. The team in general can't win.

Okay so your belief is that if you don't win the cup then you are choking. Got it.

Yeah, Howard shouldn't be required to be the top star every game, so it was nice to see the offense give him a breather after having trouble with those rebounds in the first.