Doc Holliday

Wait, you are crossovert of HFboards?

I believe he fractured it the game before Edmonton and played anyway. Doubt he will be out long.

Also I would like to point out the Vezina voting of 2008 (the same year that Dan Ellis lead the league in sv%) Top five in sv% 1. Dan Ellis (44 GP) 2. Ty Conklin (35 GP) 3. J.S. Giguere (58 GP) 4. Tim Thomas (57 GP) 5. MA Fleury (35 GP) 8. Martin Brodeur (77 GP) 18. Henrik Lundqvist (72 GP) 23. Evgeni Nabakov (77 GP) Top five in GAA 1. Chris Osgood (43 GP) 2. JS Giguere (58 GP) 3. Evgeni Nabakov (77 GP) 4. Dominik Hasek (41 GP) 5. Martin Brodeur (77 GP) It would take this same consistent play and then some to be considered for the Vezina, which by Brodeur's winning shows it is a big reputation award.

Gotta love the Avs fans cheering in the background. "Oh wait, it's in?"

No because they aren't good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is a game-breaker or anything. It isn't like Howard is giving the puck directly to the opposition on every shot. I'm just saying that it is something he needs to work on and it has hurt him on occasion. And that is something that needs to be looked at when discussing his current performance.

Really? A goalie's ability to control a rebound is irrelevant to how good he is? I never said Howard doesn't do his fair share. He does. However we are talking about him bailing out his team much more (much more if the key phrase) and yes that is arguable. Just because you wave your arms around and say "oh he bails out his teammates ALL THE TIME" but that isn't suddenly a fact and that isn't going to magically win him the Vezina. I won't even answer because it is splitting hairs to the actual issue. Howard does have an issue with rebound control and everyone and their mothers has said it at one point. That's the fact and your accusation of whether I pay attention or not is meaningless unless you believe that everyone who has said that doesn't pay attention. This kind of unsubstantiated phrasing is not the best way to prove your point.

Umm, what? 2002-03 3.05 25.0 2003-04 2.24 25.6 2005-06 2.76 26.6 2006-07 2.38 24.6 2007-08 2.09 23.5 2008-09 3.09 27.7 2009-10 2.81 29.5 Last year was the first time since 2003 (when he played for the Blues) that his GAA was over 3. So that is an average of 2-3 goals on an average of 25 shots against. And yes the discrepancy is a big deal when one goal can win/lose a game. And essentially it looks like Babcock doesn't really care to see what Osgood is playing like right now (keyword is right now) since Howard is at least playing solid and consistent and Detroit is in a serious dog hunt for a playoff position (and the western conference isn't helping any). Osgood will probably get a few starts AFTER the olympic break and gradually get more if he improves. I am worried about him getting rusty though, but we will see. That isn't the top priority at the moment.

Because those shots weren't anything special.

Well if we are going by the fact that Brodeur eats up a lot of the shots he gets then no it is not overrated. If your goaltender has to make a second save on most shots due to rebounds then he isn't doing his job as effectively as the other guy. And we are talking about the potential Vezina goaltenders. Which is arguable. I think a big reason people are so high on the Vezina idea is the fact that he is exceeding expectations a lot. When Brodeur lets in multiple juicy rebounds that his defense swipes away every game this may make sense. I've seen him play and he is a great goaltender. Considering he plays in the East it is hard to be completely objective because we will look at statistics to measure his skill, then knock those statistics down because of the team in front of him. Well the team in front of him isn't the best defense in the league and it isn't like he is getting THAT many fewer shots against per game than Detroit is. (the answer is 2 fewer shots per game). In fact on average both teams have outshot the opposition by 3 shots. Once again, that is an if, and it will depend on how he plays during the games. His statistics are not the only indicator and shouldn't be. Right now I don't think he is in contention but there is still half the season to go. And personally I don't think Babcock cares if he wins the Vezina or not.

Cool beans right there.

Nabby, he's at his level or below despite stealing games against teams like Chicago and such so I don't consider him a Vezina candidate. Brodeur is one of the best for a reason (in fact the "no rebounds" argument you make helps his case because he has possibly the best rebound control of any goaltender and the fact he has few second save scenarios means that he is doing his job better than anyone else). Also consider that Howard, despite his play, has relied on the defense to bail him out on his rebounds on multiple occasions, even during the LA game that he stole. I don't consider the stigma of Osgood to be any kind of factor because the last few years Osgood has split starts with the other goaltender. Normally the number 1 starts 50 games or more. Howard is a rookie, and I think of that when I talk playoffs or the future, but not right now. He could be a Vezina candidate but I don't think his statistics and his game against LA will be enough to put him above the rest of the pack.

Why say anything at all? Burrows did not seem taken back by it and didn't act like it, and neither did Auger, so what from that video proves that Auger said anything? Other than Burrow's wonderful word? Honestly some people here like to latch on to whatever theory sounds the coolest and just roll with it.

Wow. This is two years old, man.

Speaking of which, why isn't Lange doing PBP for the Penguins' broadcasts? Steigerwald is just awful.

Glad you completely skipped over my point.

Of course Micah brings up Holmstrom in a thread completely unrelated to him. Made sense for Bradley to jump in instead of Ovie (six minutes left and without your star player for five of those six your chances are very slim to win) but at the same time they were down by three and Ovechkin doesn't need to score for the team to dominate offensively.

That argument would make sense if Detroit didn't beat any good teams.

If he wins us two more cups I'll be fine with that.

That isn't how it works. Conklin was listed on the roster every game (including the finals) so that counts. It is like having Leino on the roster but sitting him the entire time out of spite. He still gets credit for being at the game.

Yeah cause Hudler didn't perform more than any other Red Wing based on the amount of time he got during the regular season. They are lol'ing.

Yeah I guess not playing since mid December, having to get thrown into the middle of a game with a three goal deficit already, and having your team look like the Farmington Flames house hockey team doesn't have anything to do with his poor play. START HOWARD NEXT GAME HE IS OUR ONLY CHANCE.

There is a bandwagon for any player who is playing well. Helm, May, Osgood, Howard, Bertuzzi, Leino (okay maybe not Leino). Since Howard is one of the few pleasant surprises on the team with the way he is playing it is more of a Howard bandwagon. When the playoffs rolled around the past two years and Osgood was playing well he was getting the admiration. When Conklin was playing well in the regular season last year while Osgood was not Conklin was getting the wagon. Etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Watching Crosby's mustache grow would be more entertaining than this suck-fest.