atodaso

you know what i'd like to see on friday? an empty joe louis arena. of course, this will never happen but.. it sure would be a good way for the fans to give the players and coaches a big middle finger for their play the last three months.

i wonder what excuses babcock and the players will come up with for this one

he played tonight? hmm... didn't notice. i thought he was scratched.

jimmy "the rebound" strikes again!

i still can't believe they blew a 3 goal lead at home like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C6TSe6NJLM

this is brilliant because it summarises so perfectly how we all feel when we watch the wings play this year (since the beginning of december anyway)

they'll probably spend them playing 'hungry hungry hippos' and chess

there was a time when people used to say that about the wings

because they suck. that's why.

#40 for the GWG in win #40

so true. i laughed too after seeing that play. not at joey though; rather at the whole team. they have no spirit and their play seems stale. it's been this way since the beginning of december.

well, it's not like abby would win a fight with kostopoulos

i completely agree with what you said here. it's just that some people will say "pavel and Z are both great, therefore pavel = Z." i don't agree with that, and i am pretty sure you don't either. edit: however, i wouldn't replace Z on our team with anyone in the league. i just wanted to say this in case someone thought otherwise based on my previous posts where it seemed like i was praising dats and s***ting on Z.

i can't show you proof. i'm sure you've watched a lot of wings hockey so i don't understand how you can think otherwise. even if you think Z is as fast as pavel, you can't tell me you think Z is as good of a skater as pavel. those assignments you speak of are only during home games, and some of that may have something to do with the fact that pavel is put out there against the other teams' better defensive forwards due to his superior offensive skills. match-ups aren't all about defence. and i could ask you to show me proof here. you'll probably mention crosby in the finals. do you honestly think pavel can't handle crosby? why not? the award is for sportsmanship combined with a high standard of playing ability. someone that wins this award shouldn't be laughed at just because there is a 'lady' in the name of the award. ok. i'll give you that. maybe i shouldn't have removed the pre-lockout years to make my point. all i was trying to say was that recently pavel has been putting up points in the playoffs. however, i never meant to imply, by statistics, that Z is more effective that pavel in the playoffs. that's why you have to watch the game to see who is playing well. for example, homer is very effective on most nights but he only puts up 35-40 points per year. another example is rafalski's +/- this season compared to lids' what i meant by "on the stat sheet" is that judging a player's worth should be done through watching him play, not just looking at how many points he scored. i admit that i have used a lot of statistics to back up some arguments on pavel's behalf but i only did that because i am certain that some of you would ask for 'proof,' which i cannot easily provide. if i say pavel is a better faceoff man, the only way to "prove" it is to state their faceoff statistics. one final thing i want to say regarding the original topic of this thread: Z would make a better captain not because he is as good of a player as pavel but because of his leadership skills, as well due to the lack of english language skills on pavel's part. either way, i sometimes just cannot believe that red wings fans, who watch the majority of wings' games (i hope), still do not appreciate how superior pavel datsyuk is to almost every player in the league, in almost every way. that is why i posted in this thread in the first place.

-shooting: pavel has a shooting % of 18.3% this season and a career 14.8% Z has a shooting % of 7% this season and a career 11.2% Z currently has 7 more career goals than pavel while taking 529 more shots Z has missed the net 99 times in 63 games this season pavel has missed the net 40 times in 44 games this season bottom line: watching them play, you can see pavel has a quicker, faster, and more accurate shot than Z, and this shows up in the stats as well -passing: i don't think there should be much discussion about this. you don't need stats to know pavel is a world class distributor of the puck. Z is a good passer but he is not on the same level as pavel. -skating: no one in the league can stop on a dime like pavel can, and that's with the puck btw. pavel is also faster than Z. -defence: pavel has 63 takeaways, 45 hits, and 15 blocked shots in 44 games Z has 43 takeaways, 30 hits, and 15 blocked shots in 63 games pavel has 3 selke trophies -other: pavel is the best deker and stickhandler in the world pavel's faceoff % this season is 56.3% Z's faceoff % is 52.2% datsyuk has won 4 lady byng trophies -playoffs: overall, datsyuk has 110 games, 28 goals, 48 assists, 76 points Z has 97 games, 46 goals, 45 assists, 91 points however, datsyuk's first playoff was in '02 when he was a rookie. in that year he had 3 goals and 3 assists in 21 games, and the following year we played giguere and no one had a good playoff that year. so, taking a look at the post-lockout playoff stats: pavel has 25 goals and 39 assists in 85 games played Z has 43 goals and 43 assists in 81 games played Z has been more productive in the playoffs (on the stat sheet) and has won a conn smythe besides all of the stats and accomplishments, just watching datsyuk play is enough to see that not only is he better than Z, he is one of those special players that comes along once every 20 years or so. he is currently the best player in the whole world, nevermind the red wings locker room. the players in the locker room have noted pavel as being one of the most committed players they have ever seen. his off-ice work ethic is second to none. Z has a better slap-shot? between the two of them they have take one career slap-shot

zetterberg can't be 'just as good' as datsyuk since datsyuk is the best player in the world. i mean, i love Z but no one can seriously argue he is a better player (or just as good) than pavel.

it might be 2-1 but the wings look awful

yea, i think we can definitely agree on who's a better player between the two. but my point was that bringing bogosian in would mean one of our top four has to go (because of both salary and toi). if there was no cap however...

2010-2011 avg. toi 1. lidstrom 23:41 2. kronwall 22:31 3. stuart 21:06 4. rafalski 20:27 5. salei 18:36 6. ericsson 18:22

i meant in terms of our depth chart. 1. lidstrom 2. rafalski 3. stuart 4. kronwall 5/6 salei/ericsson

i'm not either. but E makes under a mil and he's a 3rd pairing d-man. bogosian is not a top six guy which is why i don't think it's fair to compare them. would i trade stuart for bogosian? probably. (but i do like stuart, for now)

yea, no question he's better than E. i'm just not sold on having two brad stuarts on this team.

and your turnovers even more.

ok, my bad. for some reason i read it as "we're awful on D and we should trade a good forward for a d-man." i'll shut up now.