Hockey Convert

Look, I appreciate this comment in the spirit it's made (I assume lightheartedly), but people bring this up as a serious argument sometimes and I think it's worth making the following point. This is exactly what "statistically" means. It does NOT mean that late round picks never make the NHL. It DOES mean that it is much less likely. Zetts and Datsyuk are certainly outliers, no question; however, the fact that they are so remarkable actually supports the point that Addict was making above.

That was a mistake, no doubt, but even with that Howard has been the only reason this game stayed close. Terrible effort in periods 2 and 3 by the Wings.

I guess I could see that; he has shut down a lot of guys in a lot of playoff games, I'll give him that. *Wipe, wipe, wipe* OK, I held it in during the game, but look at that...

Yeah, seriously. He's definitely playing well lately, but that tonight was about an elite play as you'll see in the NHL; it made me sit up like I'd been electrocuted. Just take the puck and BAM- TOP SHELF, motherf***er. (I'm pretty sure there's an expression like that in Finland.)

Haha, that was the best part about it; when Smith just lay there afterward and you could just SEE him kicking himself mentally. Eh, do you really want Gill at this point? Guys is about two time zones past his prime by now...

If so, I really hope it's not to the Wings. During the game tonight, Subban elbowed David Krecji in the head on a hit. Then when Andrew Ferrence came after him, Subban dropped to the ice and hid his face until the refs broke up the scrum. After the refs had pulled Ferrence away, Subban got up and started running his mouth. Absolutely disgusting display. Subban is a piece of garbage, and his antics and attitude have, in my opinion, contributed to the decline of Montreal's team.

Holy s***, PRO move from Zetts. Love it!

Howard run again, and no response, again. Unbelievable.

I can't speak for Newfy, but it seemed to me that he was suggesting the team in '08 was not as soft as the current team, a sentiment I agree with. The '08 team was probably not the toughest in the league, but as Newfy points out, they had some balance and some bottom-six guys who played much more physically than any players on the team now as a unit. I would not call that team "soft" in relation to the current team, that's the point. Also, I don't think this team can "win now". Yes, anything is possible; I could win the lottery tomorrow. That doesn't mean I think it will happen. With this roster, I think the probability of the Wings winning a cup is very small. It breaks my heart to say, and every time I watch a game where they just get out-competed, but I don't think the current roster is good enough. Skilled enough, maybe, but you need more than that. The fact that you disagree with that assessment does not make it a "fact" that posters like Newfy are ignoring; it's your opinion that this team can win now. If they win the cup with the current roster, I will admit my assessment was wrong. Until then, please stop treating it as a given that anyone is "ignoring". Finally, no one is trying to turn "remembering fondly" into a causal relationship. Some posters are using a correlation to go with their opinion that more toughness is needed; some are also discussing studies that seem to provide some (again, correlational) evidence in support of having toughness or fighting. But please, don't extrapolate from other posters' arguments and use contrived conclusions to support your own argument. A strong opinion that you happen to disagree with is not "histrionics".

Wait, didn't they have both Adam Burish and Ben Eager on the roster that won the cup? Granted neither is, e.g. Steve MacIntyre level, but that's far more beefcake than the Wings currently have. I forgot about the Penguins comment.

Have to agree. Hudler at least showed some grit tonight, I'll give him that. I think we're getting to the point where turning a win into a blowout isn't really needed, but someone to turn a one goal deficit into a tie-game is.

Too bad, indeed. I have tried reasonable discourse, multiple times on this board. All it gets me is hyperbole thrown back, strawmen, and outright personal attacks. So, I fall back on humor. For #1 Fan, I'll tell you one thing: if Boston ends up not making Shawn Thornton an offer for next year, I REALLY hope the Wings are waiting outside his apartment to get a deal done. He would be perfect for the Winged Wheel. Holland may even go for it because if I recall correctly, Thornton turns 35 this year and we could call it "veteran leadership".

I'll just summarize the responses for you here: Crymson: "NO! The Wings are perfect and Holland had nice hair! They do not need a tough guy." Konnan: "You're all just xenophobic euro-haters. They score plenty of points with 'soft-euros'." Various: "Fighting in hockey is useless. You should just watch UFC, you don't even like hockey." Holland: "The right deal just wasn't available, but we're confident that some players will take that next step..."

Posters here know way better than Cherry because he hasn't won as many cups as they've watched being won. Fact.

Nah, Jimmy can play every game and be fine because the Red Wings are flawless and Holland never makes a mistake.

That story is all well and good, but all it really provides evidence for is that tickets are more expensive in Canada, and lots of people buy them. That's interesting, but not really earthshaking, to me. I'm not sure you can support "teams are better off in Canada" without some more information; at least: 1) How do ticket revenues match up against merchandise revenues? 2) What's the revenue from media contracts and advertising in different markets? 3) As I understand it, some teams do funny things with owning the arena, and paying a different corporation (with the same owner) usage fees, etc. How does accounting like that affect team and league revenues? All that being said, I suspect the NHL might be better off with some teams either contracting out of existence or in Canadian markets, but I don't really know for sure and the article doesn't really shed much light on that. It seems more like a jump-to-conclusions mat for riling up rabid Canadian fans.

I wish the Wings could have picked up Rupp. I'll forgive his past as a... *gag* Penguin; he can play, and play tough.

As I said, I hope that's the case. The last two playoffs have said differently, which is why games like this give me a sinking feeling in the gut.

Exactly right. I have always despised Pronger as a player; but I would like nothing more in this instance than for him to make a full recovery, and be symptom free.

Refs put the whistles away for the most part, and a physical team wears the Wings down in the end. Yes, I see all the "puck luck" comments and am doubtful. I just really really hope this isn't a preview of what the playoffs will be like again.

That's true, he seems fearless. I had completely forgotten that Janssen was out in Jersey now; those two are crazy when they go at it. I'm going to have to remember to watch next time they play, now.

Should be interesting to see how it goes. The last time Barch squared off with Thornton, Barch ended up in a full-face cage for six weeks...

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They need someone with some fire, plain and simple. Half the time I watch the Wings, it seems like robots playing; just no emotion. Watching the Bruins isn't like that, which I use as comparison because they're the other team I watch on a regular basis. Much as some people don't like it, the best place to get some fire is big, physical players. I would kill to have a Shawn Thornton on this team. Edit: Actually, reading this again, I shouldn't say the "best" place; I should say the most accessible place to the Wings.

I don't know what the use in discussing this is; they haven't been hitting much lately anyway. In yesterday's game, it seemed like every Wing who tried to throw a hit ended up missing...