Hockey Convert

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, Ben Marshall has also been injured. There was a better story I found last night, but can't get to it now; this mentions it: http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534219 Last night I heard "ligament damage", but this says broken wrist.

I've agreed with that since page 1. So many people were excited about the Modano thing that I tried to give it a chance, but I can't get into it. It seems like he's just jerking the Wings around now, and I still don't think he'll have the focus and drive we need if the Wings are to go on a run for the cup.

Yeah, probably far-fetched; he does seem to have a good attitude going, which I like to see. If that drive survives having to spend another year in GR and he keeps working on improving, I think that could be great for us. I haven't seen Kindl play much, but I hope he gets his shot and takes advantage of it too.

Anyway, I've changed my vote. I think we should get rid of all of them. After all, none has proven he can score 50 goals; I think we should go with proven quantities. Let's bring in over-36 players who have proven [years ago] that they can score 40+ goals and can skate reasonably quickly around being extra nice to everyone. Plus they'll provide invaluable veteran leadership for those young players - via cable feed to Grand Rapids, of course!

That may be, but isn't the point I was getting at. My question could be better phrased this way: "Talent" aside, if the younger guys did out-play Modano, i.e. get better results, would they get the spot(s) over Modano? I don't see it as likely, which is my counter to the argument that "it's good to have competition for the bottom 6 spots". I don't think it would be competition, I think Modano would get a spot regardless.

Without several hours of digging through the boards to get numbers, I can't say for sure how the magnitude differs, but I recall quite a backlash both here an on the HF boards when the new Bertuzzi contract was announced. I was one of the detractors; I still think two-year contracts for both of Bertuzzi and Holmstrom was too much. However, it's done, so the debate has died down. The Modano situation still isn't settled, so debate goes on.

I agree. I think this is really the point this debate hinges on, and at this point I don't think anyone's going to be swayed. I will say that what sticks in my mind is the recent playoffs where Abdelkader was one of the only Wings giving it 100% every shift, and playing like he wanted it. A lot of Veterans were skating listlessly while Abs, Helm, Stuart, Lilja and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting actually played hard. To me, Abs had earned a chance; not just injury-fill-in, a complete chance. If the Wings management doesn't want to go that route, there's nothing I can really say. I still disagree with the approach of bringing in Modano; it seems too much like the Hawks approach of selling out the future.

And if we end up spending $1.5 million on Modano, but then Eaves, Abdelkader, Helm, and Miller all play their asses off in camp to a far higher level than Modano, will they really bench Modano and give the spots to them? I have a really hard time seeing a scenario in which we shell out all this for Modano then scratch him, no matter who "earns" what spot.

Both Eaves AND Ritola are "longer term Wings" than Modano, who has never played for them. And how is "less of a gamble" really an endorsement for possibly three times the price? Why can't we use some of that cash to address the actual shortcomings that Holland himself said the Wings have? I understand some people love Modano as a player, but I'll say it again: He's not even sure he wants to play another season. How can we be in any way confident of his mindset/dedication if we do sign him?

Yeah, this is a question for me. At what point does it stop making the guys want to play harder, and start discouraging the younger guys because they think the Wings will just keep bringing in veterans and not give them a legitimate shot to grow through some ice time? I know, there were all the injuries this year, but to me, time playing with the skilled veterans on a healthy team is different than being brought in with all the pressure on you because the skilled vets are injured. Who will have to be bumped from that chance to accommodate Modano if he signs? Also, regarding the motivation level of Modano himself, I think there are a couple issues. He doesn't seem that completely sure he even wants to play another season; if we convince him to sign, will that hunger level ever materialize? How about if his wife is unhappy still being so far from L.A.? I'm not sure why some people are so sure he'll provide this surge of energy and motivation to the team. That may very well happen, but these other factors could easily make him just coast through, too. It seems just as risky to me as giving the guys we have the shot, or bringing in a grinder.

Would it be worth it if the Wings had to put up a two year deal, though, as TSN suggested a few minutes ago?

I'm not disputing that; my point, which probably wasn't clear enough, was that I think it's a bad idea.

From the TSN feed: "On Mike Modano - DRW may have to offer 2yr deal. Modano has at least 5 attractive pitches (4 contenders, the other a Cd..." I'm sorry, but no.

I believe that's what we call "chemistry"!

Look, this discussion has gone on countless times now in the last couple months, and I don't want to start it again, but I will make one response to this. I understand your point, I really do; but my counter-question is this: how many skill players can we afford to have sit in IR because the cheap-shotters out there have no hesitation to take liberties with them? To be clear, I'm not saying the Wings will certainly fail without an enforcer/policeman/tough guy. I'm also not saying a goon will certainly make them instantly better. My hope is that it would help the energy and drive of the team. No one can know for sure; I'm willing to just wait to see how next year goes, however Holland and co. decide to play it.

I've suggested changes repeatedly, mostly in the enforcer threads. As you say, it's not because I think we don't have the talent; I agree that the team, as it stands now, has the potential to make a cup run. There are just a lot of 'if...' statements involved. "If" everyone stays healthy; "if" Hudler/Cleary/Filppula produces as expected, etc. Which is not necessarily a killer; I mean, there will be those "ifs" involved with any team, before any given season. Who saw the Flyers coming this year? I think they got some ifs to go their way, and though I'm no Flyers fan, good for them. So there are improvements I think could be made, to help take away some of the "ifs"; I wouldn't say a run is impossible without them, just more likely with them. In the end, the only way we're going to know for sure is to see what happens next April...

Well, if it happened to Getzlaf it would still technically be wrong... but I'd laugh and point. Back on the main point, my ideal would be what GMR and newfy said: a grit guy and a heavyweight. Only thing to do now is see what Holland and co. think, though.

Did we just manage to draft the smallest overall player?

Yeah, I agree completely. Maybe conditioning and Wings training will help avoid injuries, and if so he could be a nightmare for opposing defenses.

Point taken; I would not want to see *anyone* in a Wings sweater do something like that.

Ah, that I didn't know; all they talked about on the TV coverage was his upside. What kind of surgeries? Is he likely to be in one piece to play for the Wings? Edit: found it. He had a separated shoulder, broken wrist, and some sort of knee problem.

Any chance the Wings could/would trade up earlier in the 4th?

nhl.com has him listed as a center; odd we'd draft another one, no? And no Pulkkinen, though still available. Interesting.

I think the reason these debates go on for pages and pages with no progress is that people have 10 different answers to this question in their minds. I can say that personally when I say I want the Wings to have an enforcer, maybe "policeman" would be a better term, kind of like what Brad May provided part of this last year. It works like this: no stupid penalties, no running the other teams stars any more than just playing a solid checking shift. Just play a solid fourth-line role; that is until someone takes a swipe at one of our players. In one of those games against Pit, Matt Cooke decides to be Matt Cooke and throws a cheap crosscheck at the back of Zett's head when he's not looking. Or some bright spark decides to play the helmet-twisting game on Datsyuk again in the corner. Next shift, Boogaard (I'll just use him as an example) goes out and runs over Cooke, and let's him know quite vocally that he's a useless pile of stool. No running Crosby in retaliation, I don't think that kind of thing is necessary. Just sending a message to the douches that douchery will not be tolerated. Maybe I'm way off base from what others are asking for, but that's really what I'd like to see for the Wings.

WHY?