sleepwalker

Haha, no s***. That post was completely laughable. Luntz is doing a great job obviously!

Don't kid yourself, the NHLs offer the other day didn't come close to 50/50 either, nor did it include "no salary rollbacks" like they said, they just tried to spin it like it did with the help of Luntz. This is just as I predicted. Neither side is budging, they are both just turning up the spin.

Their job that they were brought in and paid to do was help the league spin the leagues proposals to the public as great strides forward and get fan support on their side. I admit I am assuming, but it seems very coincidental that within days of hiring the Luntz group the league was able to successfully spin and promote more or less the same reworded offer they have been putting forward since day one into "50/50 revenue split with zero salary rollbacks" Either Bettman and the league suddenly became brilliant spin doctors themselves, the public suddenly all became idiots, or the Luntz group helped the league do what the Luntz group does best. Spin and misrepresent something to the public as something it is not to get the people on their side.

Yeah no doubt, but you're missing the point. The proposal is not that much different at all from the leagues previous proposals, but with the help of Luntz group, they were able to successfully spin it to the public and get the fans back on their side as a "50/50 revenue split with no salary roll back" Which isn't true at all, not even close.

Was it? Think about it from a business perspective. In less than 48 hours due to the hiring, the league has gone from the bad guy to the good guys who offered up a great compromise that the players must now agree to or else the players become the bad guys. Even though, you know, the proposal was not much different at all from the previous ones, they just reworded it, flipped a round some numbers, continued to try to "tweek" the definition of HRR, and got a great PR firm to spin the whole thing to make them look like heroes! Perception means a lot in business. I agree with the others that said this whole thing is actually pretty genius.

LOL Just looking at the comments the past couple pages, I can see that Frank Luntz and his firm are certainly earning those hundreds of thousands of dollars the league just gave them... I tried to remind folks yesterday that the NHL just spent tons of money hiring a high priced spin doctor, and that the latest offer likely still included massive salary rollbacks, unlike their spin claimed, and to take what they heard with a grain of salt knowing this.

So to sum up... This never had anything to do with the polar bears. The OP was just using that as a jumping off point to rant about his dislike of Tootoo and the contract the Wings signed him to. Sound about right?

I agree, thats why I am hesitant to get excited over the NHL supposed great new offer. Actually thats not true. The NHL saw that this time around the fans were more on the side of the players, so they (the NHL) went out and hired a high priced spin-doctor to try to shift the PR "war" in their favor. This just happened a couple days ago.

Really? I'm guessing they were basing their opinion on everything that had been said by both sides up until this point.

LOL I'll pay you in Bettman brand fun money. Seriously though, I'll believe it when I see it. I am also not forgetting that the NHL just hired a high dollar government policy spin doctor to help their PR campaign, so... Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. I am hoping as much as anyone that they can finally hash this s*** out and get the season under way though.

LOL What kind of bias exactly? There has been no idication that the season will start by November at the very latest, which is what he said. I am willing to bet you that the season won't start in two weeks at the very latest.

I'd say it is not that much of a stretch at all to think the whole season might be lost. I am not sure where on earth you got your "feeling" from. Both sides have pretty much stated they are not moving off of their stance more than slightly and would be willing to lose as much time as it takes. This somehow in your mind translates to "we'll be playing hockey in a couple weeks, guaranteed"?

In case anyone is interest, ESPN2 is currently airing the Dynamo vs Amur game.

Not really. If you put it to a vote between minor league hockey and NBA basketball, I don't care what state or city it is in the US, NBA will win the vote 10 times out of 10. Then you add in the fact that anyone could vote, and it is guaranteed to be a landslide victory for the NBA. People all over are fans of the Pistons. Most people in the states, even hockey fans, have never heard of the Griffins.

Bulls*** if true, but understandable if they put it to a vote on their site since most people don't care about hockey, only we do. Most people in this country only care about basketball, football, nascar, etc.

fyi "hockeyyinsiderr" is a teenage kid and all of his posts are completely fabricated by him. He has no inside info.

I hate to nitpick on something off topic, but thats not true. A keg of Miller sells at RETAIL for $100, and appx $70-80 wholesale (ie. to bars, restaurants, hockey rinks, etc) and contains about 165 12oz servings. You can do the math and figure out how much bars, restaurants, sports venues, etc are making off of it. Miller is actually only making a few cents per beer after expenses. They make their money by moving large volumes. Everyone else in the chain makes a lot more off the beer per ounce than the actual brewers do.

Re: the last few pages... Its silly to even talk about eliminating the union and instead having a free market system, as the owners themselves would never in a million years agree to a free market system, where they either have to make smart business decisions or fail.

He hasn't played for Ak Bars in over a decade. He played for Dynamo last lockout. (I still have my Datsyuk Dynamo jersey from back then)

Yeah, but Daly and Bettman say that kind of s*** too. Talk is cheap.

Damn you. I was just about to go to the park, and then I click your link and see there is a live game streaming now and all of the sudden I....can't....tear....self...away....from...computer.... LOL

I got excited for a minute, until I read the part about it being on ESPN3, which is apparantly an online only streaming site that most people don't even have access to. (nor are even aware exists)

I disagree. The players have come to the table in nothing but good faith. That is the whole problem here, They should have met the hostile owners who came in bad faith with an insulting low opening offer, with an insulting high offer of their own. Instead they chose to put forth a proposal that they thought was fair and was close to their bottom line. Since they are the only side who came to the table in good faith to begin with, they don't feel they should have to move too much off of their proposal.

Lol, silly Canadians and their u's... Its spelled Ann Arbor.

I doubt there is many people that think one side is 100% to blame. As an aside, I think one of the main things you can blame on the players in this lockout was having some sort of idealistic delusions of how negotiating goes, especially with the NHL. When the owners came to the table with the ridiculous and insulting lowball opening offer, what the players should have done, and what pretty much anyone else would have done, is come back with an equally insulting high ball openeing offer, like an 80/20 split, no cap, no contract lengths. Only then can you come to a meaningful compromise and meet in the middle.