sleepwalker

It certainly says something that the people here that are supporting the owners in this for the most part can't seem to put together a valid argument, so they just toss around insults and personal attacks instead to try to obfuscate the fact that the side they are arguing for really doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Yeah, it has to. Last lockout they lost a whole season and then caved into all the demands of the owners to get the next season started. The owners will not even remotely consider negotiating until a whole season is lost AND it continues into the next season. Right now the owners are thinking "we'll just wait it out until before the start of the 2013-14 season and the players will cave again to get the next season going again like they did last time" If the lockout goes into a second season, then the owners will start to get nervous and realize the players are serious this time. And if the players aren't willing to let the lockout go into the 2013-14 season, then honestly, they may as well just cave in to all the owners demands now and get it over with. Thats the reality of the situation.

Those crazy contracts we saw over the summer were essentially just sham contracts though, as the owners had absolutely zero intent of actually honoring them, as we can clearly see now. Thats why I can see this lockout going on indefinitely. The owners signed crazy contracts thinking they'd just get the players to roll over with the CBA and they wouldn't have to pay them out. While the players, are refusing the bend over and just take it up the rear like they did last time. And the only reason they even did last time, was that it was assumed since the league got everything they wanted, they wouldn't have to deal with that s*** again this time around.

Thats funny, considering you emphatically state over and over that, and I quote, "owners need more money to cover increased expenses". So even though you admittedly have absolutely no clue what the expenses are, your argument is that you just somehow know that the increased expenses are so severe that they require a nearly 50% rollback of player salaries over the last 2 CBAs while revenues simultaneously have risen by over 50%. Also funny that the owners aren't even really arguing that themselves, they are simply saying that they think the players are overpaid and that the league should have at least a 50% share, and that is why they want salary rollbacks. You must have not been around for a while. The politics forum got axed a while back, like several months ago. But I agree, Ami is letting his hatered for all unions (which he already stated in his post that got deleted) blind him to the discussion at hand here. In general, I am also not a fan of unions, but even I can see that the GMs are just being completely greedy assholes here, and the players are in the right this time. (I was on the GMs side last CBA)

No they don't, they just want more money. Profits are up by over 50% since the last lockout.

Its quite simple. Money.

The players just want to keep what they already have and what they were contractually promised. Its the owners that want more money.

Yeah, its ridiculous, and pretty much just another insult to the fans. Especially since the players wanted to try to have one last sit down yesterday with the league, and flew out there and everything, just to be told by the league to piss off, and that the league would most definitely not be interested in anything they had to say unless it was the players giving in to all of their demands. Maybe it is actually us who are pathetic. I mean, he is right. The fans have come, not crawling, but enthusiastically running back every time. And will again after this lockout too.

Bummer. I was hoping he'd play for Dynamo, since I still have my Datsyuk Dynamo jersey from last time.

True, but thats not the case here. The players are the only ones that will be missing paychecks. The owners are billionaires whose main income sources come from elsewhere. Some owners will actually be saving money from the lockout. The owners will keep the players locked out until the players cave. And unfortunately without their main, or in most cases, only source of income, the players will do just that, cave.

Oh, wow. With all the lockout hooplah, I almost forgot about the Colaiacovo rumor. Solid signing if its true.

LOL I love your optimism. Just the other day when it was pretty clear the chances at the best were 99/1 you were still sticking by your 60/40 prediction. Today, now that there is no doubt that a lockout is 100% assured, you are downgrading your prediction to 80/20. I love it!

It seems you are a fan of the league to me because you have been cheerleading for the GMs while making suble digs at the players this whole thread. (very Bettman-esque of you) And you have been going on about how it is EQUALLY 50/50 both sides fault (until your most recent 60/40 post) when in the current situation it is clearly, to anyone paying attention, more the fault of the GMs than the players. The players are not blameless here either, but it is blaringly obvious that more fault rests with the GMs than the players this time around.

Perhaps you should also do the same as you suggest. From all your comments here I would never in a million years have guessed you think the league is 60% to blame. From all of your comments, I would have guess you thought it was about 80-90% the players fault.

Lol, it really is. Its like watching how a normal person interacts with people versus how the slimiest of all venomous vile-filled scumbag snakes tries to deal with people. The difference is staggering. I wonder if Gary Bettman is even human... lol

If anything, what happened at the last CBA, and what is happening now as a direct result should teach everyone a big lesson about negotiating. You should NEVER cave in to all the other sides demands, regardless of what your reasoning is. Thats what the players did last time, and that being the case, now the league expects nothing less this time and the will straight out refuse to budge. When you give in to all of the other sides demands, you essentially set a precedent. Unfortunately, I can see the players eventually caving in again like they did last time, because the owners and the NHL don't give a f*** now that they already know the players caved in to all their demands last time. They'll keep them locked out for years of thats what it takes to "win". They are all billionaires and have other sources of income in the mean time. As has been pointed out many times already, this should have been the easiest CBA ever since the NHL got everything they wanted last time. BUT, since they got the world last time, and that precedent was set, they expect nothing less than the same this time.

They have already offered concessions. The owners have not, and literally can not offer any consession, because of they did, it would give the players MORE than 57% and/or reverse a lot of the last CBA. The GMs want more money, more power, more control. Thats pretty much it. I, as well as most people were on the GMs side last time. And they won and cheered about how they got every single thing they wanted and the league would be all good now. And now here they are, with record profits, demanding even more. (not asking, or attempting to negotiate, demanding) The players counter proposal to the owners ridiculous (I'm sure even you can admit that) original proposal did offer some consessions. The GMs refused it immediately. Then came back with their counter proposal that only a complete moron couldn't see was pretty much exactly the same as the first, just reworded, with some numbers shuffled around. Which is so completely insulting, I don't even know what to say about it. It is pretty much the GMs saying "we are banking on the fact that you are total retards who won't notice this is the same as our first proposal and agree to it"

A bit more? LOL The ownership has offered pretty much no compromise whatsoever, and has made it clear that they don't intend to either. Either the players cave and give in to all their demands, or they will stay locked out.

Yeah, talk is cheap though. Only a small fraction of all the people all over the internet threatening to cancel all their subscriptions actually will. Obviously, a lot of people will still cancel though.

A bit off topic, but... What does THN do when there is a lockout? Last lockout I was moving around a lot so didn't have a subscription, but now I do. Do they shift their coverage to the minor leagues? Or keep doing all the "gear buyers guide" crap they do during the summer? Do they just keep speculating on the possible end of the lockout over and over in each issue?

Haha, that was my first thought too. Who buys a house in suburban Detroit in 2012 for $3mil cash? Though if it is drug dealers, they are probably not too happy that the media is making a point to report that they paid cash. The Feds are probably already looking into it after reading the news stories saying that, lol.

We know you are pro NHL/GMs and anti-NHLPA, but it has been pointed out to you multiple times already that this is a LOCKOUT, and yet you keep saying strike regardless. The players aren't striking, the owners are locking them out. Last CBA, was also a lockout. The one before that? Yep, also a lockout.

Uh... Bettmans concern is finances. When he says the fans came back, he meant financially. If you are going to refuse to spend a penny on the NHL now, then you are not coming back financially speaking. So, no, he is not necessarily right. Even you yourself say you are not going to support the NHL any more. (support means spending money)

I used LOL to show how laughable I thought the post was, and explained why. (salary cap) To suggest that in the current NHL that Fedorov would get a contract for 15 mil per season is ridiculous.

I'm not even sure what you are asking then. If you want to discuss what possible contracts Fedorov might have gotten in the current NHL, then you have to consider the salary cap.