number9

I liked him with SJ in the playoffs as well. I can't remember who he was paired with then though. I feel like he was a bottom pairing and played against some weak opposition, though honestly I can't say that fersure.

They're better right now, but It's not like they're miles ahead of Jensen. http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/ , http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/detroit_red_wings/ Out of the 25 top prospects on RedWingsCentral, Sproul is ranked #6, Ouellet ranked #8, and Jensen is ranked #13. Jensen's not that far at all. Sproul and Ouellet have also fallen slightly on the prospect rankings recently, while Jensen has been shooting up the list. Again, there's a reason why Jensen won the equivalent of the Norris trophy in his league last year. How about another source? on Hockey's Future Sproul and Ouellet are given an identical talent score rating of 7.0 and an identical probability of success grade of C. Jensen is given a talent score of 6.5 and probability of grade of C. Again, not that far off from them at all. Sproul and Ouellet are not un-tradeable, untouchable guys. Frankly none of our prospects are un-tradeable. We don't have any Dumba's, Reilly's, Reinhart's, Murray's, or Trouba's in our system. Especially with the current state of things, I don't think even guys like Nyquist are untouchable. There's a reason that when trade threads pop up on here people typically include guys like Mrazek (despite him being ranked as our #2 prospect) in trade ideas. He actually has value, but isn't the caliber - at least yet - of a Hall, Larsson, or Fowler type prospect that is almost immediately ready for NHL. Those guys are untouchable bonafide future leaders of their franchises. Take a look at Hockey's Future again and look at a guy like Ryan Murray. #2 overall pick by the Jackets, but not a guy that immediately jumped to NHL so he's still a prospect. He's a ranked at a talent level of 8.0 and probability of success grade of B. That's a full point ahead of Sproul and Ouellet in both categories. That's the kind of guy that's approaching untouchable status. (IMO I wouldn't say even he is absolutely 100% untradeable, though I doubt it's very likely) If the great one can be traded, anyone can be traded. Great prospects, but in no way does that warrant special treatment. It's well known that our entire farm system is full of boom or busters. It lacks blue chip prospects but also lacks bad prospects. So why would anyone in particular get special treatment? Detroit is known for the exact opposite of coddling it's prospects as well. We force ALL our prospects down - including the Tatars and Nyquists of the world - and make them go above and beyond to earn a spot. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a guy like Jarnkrok or Mantha bust, only to have a guy like Tvrdon (ranked #19) make the team one day. Why would we not need that? In fact that's the one thing we're missing - the physical, gritty, agitating side of the game. Sure we need a top line Sniper as well. But those are very hard to come by, and we have a ton of depth scoring to make up for it. The team is loaded with soft type players, so I think it's good to start adding some nastyness to compliment them. Take a look at this years draft. We selected a lot of physical, gritty, and pk type guys. Namely: Nastasiuk, Bertuzzi, Pope, Wheaton, McNulty. IMO that show's that Holland thinks he's got a good possible future core locked up in the likes Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Frk, Jarnkrok, Mantha, Ferraro, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Athanasiou, and Tvrdon. Now he's adding players with a knack for the physical side of the game to round out that future scoring core. I think people on this site have a much bigger pet peeve for unsourced statements my friend.

I think it's just really bad to end up as a regular healthy scratch once your an established NHL player. I think it kind of almost black lists you. Every other team is going what happened there? There must be something wrong with him, on or off the ice. IMO, He's a decent player, but not outstanding enough, or big enough, for most teams to burn the cap on him that he probably wants. I think the worst thing for his career was signing the length term he did with us. He came, played with Lids and did well, then as soon as Lids left he fell off. Kind of says he's been floating around to so many different teams for a reason and he only did well because of Lids.

Why not... NJD v. NYR? NYI v. NYR? BOS v. MTL? PIT v. PHI? DET v. PIT? DET v. COL? DET v. OTT? BUF v. PHI? MINN v. DET? All of those would make more sense to me. Tor v. MTL and CGY v. EDM would also be good, but I feel like they would lose a ton viewership on those bc there both between Canadian teams and a lot of Americans wouldn't watch. I also think anything involving ANH, LA, or SJ would be good bc they're all very competitive teams, they have an in state rivalry, and it would continue to grow the sport on the west coast/California where hockey is starting to become prominent.

Didn't say I wasn't excited about them. I'm just excited about Jensen too. They're better right now, but It's not like they're miles ahead of Jensen. Sproul and Ouellet are not un-tradeable, untouchable guys. Great prospects, but in no way does that warrant special treatment. This isn't Yzerman we're talking about. If you make statements like that without an "IMO" I'll ask for a source every time. Don't really care if you don't like it.

You didn't say LGW would be pissed, you said Bert WOULD be in the doghouse if it were Ouellet or Sproul. And I dunno why u think Sproul and Ouellet r that special. Sure they're top prospects, but that doesn't mean they get special treatment.

Nothing's ever sure fire. There's been 4 in the last twenty years.

Ur statement about Bert not being in the doghouse bc Jensen isn't a top prospect is completely unfounded and frankly bad. First, you have no idea if Bert is in the doghouse or not, or why. and 2nd Jensen is very much a top defensive prospect. He won best defensemen in his league last year for a reason.

Idk about this. He's barely played in the NHL and this is a BIG contract. We'll see what happens.

He's getting paid a 3rd line salary and IMO he's a below average 2nd liner, so I can't complain about that. If we didn't have roster issues this would be a great signing.

Source? Or are you just speculating?

Yup Tyler still trying to get signed. Makes sense.

Nice strawman. Do you really think anyone here believes "goons" should have "free reign" at prospect camp? Or were you just exaggerating my argument? I'll assume the later. Fighting at prospect camp is an obvious negative for the team, and I don't support it. I also don't support dangerous hits, or plays of that nature, that can easily lead to injury at prospect camp. However, I do support chirping and all the other rough stuff at camp. My point was that Tuzzi is an agitator. That's how he plays hockey. I don't think any coach would ever tell a player, even at prospect camp, "Hey, don't do your job out there. Don't play your style of game. Don't give everything you've got." From what I saw Bertuzzi ran his mouth, played his in your face style, and threw a few cross-checks. All of which are part of the game. He didn't make a dangerous play or even initiate the fight. I think as an "agitating forward" (not a goon) he's well within his right to play as such. I respect Jensen for not putting up with it, and dropping the gloves to try and give lil bert a spanking, but ultimately the decision to fight was his. You chirp back, match his roughness, beat him on a play, but you don't fight at a prospect camp.

Maybe Jensen shouldn't have dropped the gloves then eh?

You think an 18 year old who's never played higher than the CHL has nothing to prove? First, he's new to the organization and has to show where he stacks up against our other prospects. Second, Bertuzzi is not big at all by NHL standards and will be expected to: hit, agitate, and fight. Add that to the pressure of being a 2nd round draft choice, and add that to the pressure of the name on his back. I'm sure some among the Wings - and this forum - believe he was only drafted so high because of his uncle, or that it at least influenced the decision. All our prospects have a lot to prove, particularly Bertuzzi. It's also his job. He agitates. That's what he's good at, and it was made pretty clear by the Wings that that's what they brought him in for and wanted out of him. Did you want him to skate around like a plug and just go through the motions? He's a professional athlete at his first ever NHL prospect camp. He did what he does best, gets under the skin of an opposing defender almost 5 years his senior. Regardless of whether you thought he was too aggressive, he did not start the fight. He did not attempt to injury anyone. All he did was chirp and push Jensen around. If anything this incident should be demerit on Jensen. He lost his cool under pressure, chose to initiate the fight, and got injured for that choice. Lesson learned: Don't let the Marchand's, Raymonds, Avery's, and Bertuzzi's of the world get to you or your probably going to make dumb decisions on the ice. Like losing your composure and getting a dumb injury for it. I believe it was Jalen Rose who used to research his opponents personal lives before games so he could chirp them about it and get in their heads. IMO, smack talk is far worse in hockey. If Jensen can't handle the heat he needs to get out of the kitchen. When it comes down to it, I'm sure the choice words management had for Bertuzzi was that he needs to make peace with Jensen off the ice.

After they admitted earlier that they model their team 100% off Detroits. I guess they have to cling to something.

Guy on the radio basically just admitted the Hawks modeled their entire franchise off the Wings. Just happy they acknowledge it.

anyone got a link to the radio?

Yeah, totally went for the injury. Spot on.Edit: Jensen learned the hard way. You don't respond to an agitator. That's what Probies and Kocurs r for.

Was a very heated scrap. Bertuzzi agitated the hell out of Jensen, which obvi led to the fight. Hard for me to be mad at lil Bert though. His job is to get under opponents skin and scrap from time to time, and he did just that. How can he prove himself he doesn't do what it is that he excels at.

My choice would be Tatar, Bert, or Sammy. I don't buy into the irrational "Sammy sux" bc he was hurt mentality, bad contract or not.

...You shouldn't have either on your top line

I still think he's a bottom 6 player/checking line fwd. The only reason he was ever on the top line was bc he was the last big body we had that was healthy. And while playing top line minutes with 2 of the most skilled playmaking forwards in the league he managed only 3 pts in 12 games. Abby is not our next great pwf

Ham and melon. My favorite meal.

Pens, Sens, Habs, Bruins, Leafs, should all be pretty intense